Chaos Daemons Anti-Tank?

[Comrade Penguin]

Hello all!

I'm just starting out with Chaos Daemons, and I am trying to locate all of the anti-tank in the codex. So far I have seen bolt demon princes and heralds, khorne's death strike, screamers, and....

It doesn't seem like there is a lot of weapons to open up those tanks. So my question to all the demon vets is: how do you deal with tanks and transports? I am mostly worried about the player who hides in his multitude of rhinos and chimeras.

[Keranas]

Monstrous Creatures (Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes) along with the Soulgrinder usually does the trick in melee - remember, they get an additional dice to penetrate due to being monstrous (the Soulgrinder just has S 10 due to having Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, which is just as good).

But yeah, Daemons DO have problems taking down armour from range, as they pretty much only have Bolt of Tzeentch and Soulgrinders with the Tongue Mawcannon upgrade that can take care of armour

[Grimtuff]

In my list I tend to run 2 single Fiends with the Unholy Might. Move as Cavalry and 6 S6 rending attacks on the charge will make short work of most vehicles.

Skarbrand is also good for wrecking vehicles (or anything for that matter), as his Rage Embodied rule works on rerolling misses on vehicles too. It'll also boost the rest of your HTH prowess in dealing with vehicles in HTH for the rest of your list too.

[terradax]

I never waste points on upgrading my soul grinders with Tounge, since he misses most of the times. I just go for Plhegm wich can pop light vehicles. But other than that, winged monstrous creatures seem to do the trick.

[Memnos]

I have had no difficulty destroying tanks with my all-Khorne list, with the exception of 14 all around armor. The relevant anti-Tank weaponry I have are:

60 Flesh Hounds
Skarbrand.

A unit of flesh hounds that deep strikes will be able to run d6 inches. Next round, it can move 6+d6 inches, then assault 12 inches. This works out to mean if you land within 25 inches on average, you will be able to charge a tank. Spectacu-freaking-lar.

"But wait!" you might say, "You need 6s to hit and 6s to penetrate against AV10 rear armour. How can that possibly work?"

60 attacks means 10 hits. You then reroll thanks to Skarbrand. That's 8.33 more hits. 18 hits at S5 on the rear armor. That's 3 penetrating hits and 3 glancing hits. If that tank ain't rubble, it's darn close to it after that. Most of the time, the vehicle is wrecked outright, and you can take out 3 tanks a turn just with those squads. I took the all-Khorne list to a tournament and won some pretty spectacular wins.

[Comrade Penguin]

So it seems that your options are either bolt or destroy it in CC. I didn't consider Skarbrand, but his rerolls should work wonders for hitting those fast moving vehicles. My concern is that by killing these vehicles in CC, their contents can spill out and bolter/flame whoever charged that tank. I have seen far too many genestealer squads evaporate from return fire after opening up a 35 pt rhino.

How do small squads of screamers do? And does anyone put bolt into squads of pink horrors?

[Grimtuff]

So it seems that your options are either bolt or destroy it in CC. I didn't consider Skarbrand, but his rerolls should work wonders for hitting those fast moving vehicles. My concern is that by killing these vehicles in CC, their contents can spill out and bolter/flame whoever charged that tank. I have seen far too many genestealer squads evaporate from return fire after opening up a 35 pt rhino.

If that is your main concern then Decimators with twin Siege Claws may be right up your street. For ever penetrating hit it inflicts the contents suffer D6 S5 AP4 hits (S6 if dedicated to Tzeentch). That should wreck most things.

FWIW, twin Butcher Cannons on the same thing (8 S8 shots) will wreck most light vehicles too.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

How do small squads of screamers do? And does anyone put bolt into squads of pink horrors?

I've come to really like Screamers in my Tzeentch-Daemon army on account of being cheaper than horrors, tougher, and attracting more firepower. Actually destroying vehicles with them, however, pretty much never happens. I use Pink Horrors with Bolt (again, this is a Tzeentch-theme army), but honestly, I only target vehicles with them if there's nothing else to shoot. Weight of fire does some damage but individually, you'll probably miss or fail to penetrate with any given shot. The AP1 is very nice, though, once you get through...

[youngsamwise]

Small squads of screamers get shot to death with their T4 and 4++ save. Like flamers, they are a fire magnet. If you go the route of Skarbrand, I like screamers simply because they get to reroll their meltabomb attacks, and for 51 pts you can easily take two units of them.

5-man horror units with bolts are a staple troop choice. If you take Tzeentch princes you don't need them and can afford to stick with small plaguebearer units. If you don't have those BS5 bolts running around you can run 3 or 4 units of pink horrors with bolt and still be pretty effective.

[Chem-Dog]

In my list I tend to run 2 single Fiends with the Unholy Might. Move as Cavalry and 6 S6 rending attacks on the charge will make short work of most vehicles.

This. I play pure Slaanesh, so these guys tend to have a regular duty engaging light to medium tanks (though, with an army full of Rending, I'll have a bash with most things), I run them in threes normally as T4 with 2 wounds and a 5+save aren't all that hardy. It's worth mentioning that they have Hit & Run too, making them a pretty unavoidable menace.

My other star player in the Anti-tank field is a Winged Prince (MoS obviously), With Unholy Might he's a decent threat to just about any tank in combat.
Although it's not a primary tank killing weapon, I've found Breath of Chaos to be a pretty nasty prospect in the right circumstances, if, like me, you face a lot of open topped vehicles (Orks and Dark Eldar are two pretty regular opponents) that Glancing hit can do some decent damage which can contribute to the rollover of destruction even if a 5's and 6's on the damage roll are elusive.
The chance to knock out a weapon before charging in can be well worth it if you find yourself faced with a walker, especially Dreadnoughts, stripping off their Dread CCW (or Force weapon or Blood-Talon) can swing the following fight in your favour.

Other than that all of the above, I think most of the good options have been mentioned, there's not a lot in the way of shooting but in an army full of Deepstriking models getting close enough isn't all that hard. I'm currently building an alternative Soulgrinder which will be Tonguing enemy vehicles left, right and centre.

[Kaelarr]

Units of fiends mince tanks - but take a unit, not a single one, as it will get shot at and die very horribly. Tzeench heralds in chariots are good at it from range too.

[theDarkGeneral]

Beings that I'm a Khorne player...

*Bloodthirsters: Unholy Strength upgrade is a must, and if they survive, they're great for popping just about anything, all the way up to Warhound Titans without assistance.

*Heralds of Khorne: Mounted on a Juggernaut for the free Strength upgrade, add Unholy Might, and the Fury of Khorne and even Land Radiers are susceptible.

*Daemon Princes of Khorne: Obviously the Unholy Strength and Daemonic Flight are needed.

*Soul Grinders: Between being S(10) and having access to Tongue shot, they're great!

*Bloodletters/Flesh Hounds: Useful against lighter armored vehicles, take advantage of Furious Charge.

*Chaos Furies: I use them now to tie up enemy Dreadnoughts (to keep them off my Bloodcrushers).

[Cheeslord]

Small squads of screamers get shot to death with their T4 and 4++ save. Like flamers, they are a fire magnet. If you go the route of Skarbrand, I like screamers simply because they get to reroll their meltabomb attacks, and for 51 pts you can easily take two units of them.
.

I've not tried Skarbrand ... but when I have tried screamers I havent been impressed. Unlike flamers they have to wait a turn after deepstriking to do their thing, but being Jetbikes they can't run and so have to spend a turn in a tight bubble where even a small blast weapon will hit lots of them, and they are not tough to kill...plus, of course, they only get 1 attack each even on the charge. Because they count as using melta bombs, which have that restriction (as well as only ever hitting walkers on a 6))

Maximised bolts have worked OK for me versus Rhinos etc. You can get a lot of bolts with Heralds of Tzeentch, horror squads, lords of change and princes, and many of them have a good BS backing them up. A Cheap Bolt Platform daemon prince (MOT, BOT) costs only 140 points and is a pretty fierce close combat fighter as well as shooting the bolt.

Mark.

[bocaj]

In my army I use my Fiends, fatweaver and soul grinders for anti-tank.
The fiends deal with the light tanks and can often get a multi-charge on 2 of them and can sometime get them both popped.
Karios is good for anything AV13 or less he has bolt and breath is great for just hindering a tank's progress, even can kill Landraiders in combat if needs be.
Soul grinders are great for tank killing, nothing realy survives a charge from them except when i need 6's. I almost exclusively use phlegm on them because a s8 ap3 pie plate is better because I find tongue too unreliable due to BS3. But 5 strength 10 attacks work great.

THe other bits are good but I havent tried them much so can't give my experiences.

[stereynolds]

I assumed it was:

2x Greater Daemon of appropriate flavour plus 3 winged princes...Isn't that the anti-tank? Doesn't that and 2 minimum units of troops fit into a 1K list :P

[Chem-Dog]

when I have tried screamers I havent been impressed. Unlike flamers they have to wait a turn after deepstriking to do their thing, but being Jetbikes they can't run and so have to spend a turn in a tight bubble where even a small blast weapon will hit lots of them, and they are not tough to kill...plus, of course, they only get 1 attack each even on the charge. Because they count as using melta bombs, which have that restriction (as well as only ever hitting walkers on a 6))

As I mentioned before, I'm only running Slaaneshi Daemons in my list so my view could be (and usually is) a little skewed on the matter but Daemons are a finesse army, in this context it's about using stuff that'll slow down enemy tanks first and then sending in the Screamers when the Tank has been immobilised or stunned, making those hits auto.
Problem is it makes them that much harder to run when everything is showing up randomly.

I assumed it was:

2x Greater Daemon of appropriate flavour plus 3 winged princes...Isn't that the anti-tank? Doesn't that and 2 minimum units of troops fit into a 1K list :P

Seeing as, depending on your choices, the two GD's can easily account for 50% of that list I'm gonna have to go ahead and say no. DP's with Wings start to get expensive quick once you've added in a Mark and Unholy Might (essential if the Dp is on Tank-Hunting Duty) and the few points you're left with for troops will give you two inadvisedly small units. In anything sub-1500 points, I would probably only include a single GD or DP, you need swarms of the lesser fiends to survive the standing around they are obliged to do after they arrive.

[DarKMasteR]

Well if you are prepared to pay and use forgeworld then you have a few more options like the blight drone and the decimator which can add a lot of fire power

[Cheexsta]

Decimators with twin butcher cannons. Each one has more anti-tank firepower than most Daemon armies are capable of doing without them.

Unfortunately, in the two test games I've run with them, I've rolled horribly and they've done nothing

[daa6]

which IA are the rule for Decimators and their cc variants in?

Thanks

[Grimtuff]

which IA are the rule for Decimators and their cc variants in?

Thanks

I posted the link earlier in the thread. Decimators have only just come out and their rules are only experimental, and are available on the FW site.