Physical aggression and fighting in a GW or flgs?

[Overlord Krycis]

I simply don't believe any of that.

A (female) friend of mine had EXACTLY this kind of thing happen to her.
I basically got her into wargaming when I started as we had been good friends for years and she was very interested in the art side of the miniatures.

Well, after a few years of gaming we both decided to enter a doubles fantasy tournament for a laugh as until then we had basically been playing each other and the regulars at our FLGS.

To cut a long story short, she was "accidentally" touched several times and even had one guy in his 30s "playfully" slap her behind which his team-mate thought was hilarious. This was all despite the fact I would basically go nuts whenever someone did something like that (as I said we had basically grown up together) and the judges refused to do anything as they would need witnesses other than me (?!).

She (valiantly, I must add) continued with the tournament, despite my insistence that we just forfeit and leave as I could see how upset it was making her.
We finished the tournament, came fairly low down on the scoreboard and left.
She sold her army later that week and refused to get back into wargaming at all.

To put this in context, she was 15 at the time as was I...

So, yeah, I can fully believe what eldargal says...

EDIT: I guess we can remember things like this, as a bad experience will stay with you for a long time. I actually remember this event as clearly now as if it happened yesterday due to the extreme nature of it.
But, I guess that's the point, it IS an extreme and unlikely situation, one which WILL happen at some point or another.

[Graeme]

Something similar, yes.

Admit it, you're a LARPer.

(Nothing to be ashamed of, I am too!)

[Bassik]

You know what? You know what? Let's all just take eachothers stories at face value, since there is no way to prove anything anyway, and while stories of violence are awesome, all this whining and nitpicking about some of the stories is really tiring to read. So let's just... chill.

As for my experiences with ultra-violence in gaming stores, I've never seen it, but in our gaming club we have a tendency to start rough housing when the evening gets late, and since our club is pretty roomy, this is not a problem. You should see it, man, about 4-6 gamers all feeling very strong, while only one guy actually is. (Not me.)

[Graeme]

in our gaming club we have a tendency to start rough housing when the evening gets late, and since our club is pretty roomy, this is not a problem.

Sounds a bit too 'european' for my tastes, what.

[Bassik]

Sounds a bit too 'european' for my tastes, what.

Funny you should mention that, as we are Europeans. Rough housing is a Europe thing? I don't believe that, but that would be breaking my own rules regarding this thread, so, darn.

@Krycis and Eldargal: guys touching you in gaming clubs sounds awful to me. I can understand your friend left the hobby, Krycis, if only because the management did nothing to help her. Remember that this is sexual harrasment, and you should notify the coppers immidiatly when this happens. Unlike the staff management, they find one witness more then plenty when dealing with pervs.

And for all the ladies: go to our club. We won't touch you inapropriatly, the worst that might happen is that someone ambushes you with a nerf gun.
Anyone that touched a lady will be dealt with... Orky style.

[EldarWonderland]

Point missed totally

We Brits "know" that you Europeans get up to all sorts of odd stuff.
Stereotypes? Surely not.

[DarthSte]

Point missed totally

We Brits "know" that you Europeans get up to all sorts of odd stuff.
Stereotypes? Surely not.

What are you on about?

[RunepriestRidcully]

The management did nothing? Why was not her word and yours not good enough? I can understand why she quit after that, as that was just a disgusting way to treat anyone.
I was thinking of trying a tournament after my exams, but sure now as A) The kind of people that seem to go there mostly, and B) The fact that organizers of such tournaments allowed something like that to happen, does not bode well for me as I would not be able to stop myself from trying to help/intervein to stop it. The fact no one tried to stop them, especailly their partners is worrying and a sad indicator of society I guess.

[eldargal]

Overlord Krycis, I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your friend. It really enrages me when I hear stories of girls being put off playing because of behaviour like that.

[New Cult King]

When I was 15 and first started playing with a mate, we would often have screaming matches over rules, line of sight, etc. However, the screams usually dissolved into laughter shortly afterwards. I think it was just part of the game for us, slinging insults across the table. We were evenly matched though, and the only players we knew, so we didn't expose strangers to our obnoxious habits.

The one time I played in a club was against a guy demoing Warmachine. I beat him pretty soundly in the first game I ever played, and while he was obviously not impressed, he remained polite

[eldargal]

Well it is a difficult issue. Even big companies staffed by supposedly mature people have trouble dealing with it, you can't really expect a bunch of gamers organising a tournament to handle it well. The trouble with witnesses is they may often be friends with the perpetrator, especially in club run tournaments. They may not be thrilled by what happened but if the choice is between taking sides with some female stranger and getting a friend in trouble, it isn't as easy to do the right thing as one would hope. This is why it is better to call the police, it may seem like overkill but sexual harassment is a crime. They are also better at getting witnesses to tell the truth.

It should be obvious that I'm not defending the behaviour of the tournament organisers or the reluctant witnesses, I'm just trying to explain why everything is stacked against the girl right from the beginning and this is just in relatively mild sexual harassment cases, it is far, far worse the more serious it gets.

[Sleazy]

Really!? thats terrible.

I worked at Metro about 11 or 12 years ago, I'm guessing the same guy was manager ( who was a bell in his own right) but I cant think of who the staffer could have been unless they left before I started (the only ones I could think of were decent blokes) - I used to game at Newcastle then not Metro.

I remember a kid who used to come in a wheelchair, I wonder if that was you?, he had trouble with his feet. I remember him starting orks.

[Satan]

Have you seen the kind of men that play 40k? Beggars can't be choosers.

And my experience from conventions tells me wargamers are often better than the boardgamers, but that's generalization, I know.

Anyway - I suppose this violent streak is a macho thing, and it really gets me down. People who feel they've got the need to prove something through physical force or prowess in a manner intended to cower others just strikes me as being rather sad. This also goes beyond the physical aspect - acting in a way as to belittle your opponent (whether through sexual harassment or other types of comments/actions) speaks volumes as to what type of person you are.

Alot of people seem to feel that there's something to be gained or proven by acting in such a manner - for example: One of my friends lent another guy some parts of his army. A kid helping out with the boxes slipped in the stair, crushing some stuff. My friend was annoyed, sure, and whined some about it online. Then others start chipping in w. suggestions about financial recompense, cuffing and other actions intended to "put some respect into the kid", who was more likely than not distraught by the turn of events (what do I know?).

I know these fellas, they're decent people. But I fail to see what could be achieved by acting in such a manner as to belittle others. And the friend whose stuff got destroyed reacted by telling them to start acting their age and stop sounding like a gang of motorcycle bikers...

Machismo serves no practical purpose. Its only function is psychological and intended to award you with a vague sense of superiority. Something perpetuated through films and other various media. In reality, it has no bearing on your worth as a human being. Whether you react by physical force, or just shrug it off makes no practical difference.

The only situation (related to this topic) where I could conceive of myself reacting with physical force would be if someone were to intentionally harm my little toy soldiers, as I love those little buggers to death (the ones I've painted painstakingly myself, at least).

[t-tauri]

A large number of posts removed. Please remember the posting guidelines and that offensive language and sexism will not be tolerated on Warseer.

[Vos]

I'm a mature gamer. (40+) I have generally resisted tournament play because I enjoy the process of play, not the winning. I was goaded by some of my (more competitive) gaming mates to join them in attending my one (and only ever) tournament for WHFB at Warhammer World. This was back in 2000 ish. I turned up with a REALLY cheesy army (all Skaven Plague Monk and Censor bearers) and ended up on the top table. (not because of skill, but because of my cheesy selection) - I was trying to prove a point to my friends.

This guy I was facing had a Brettonian Army that basically consisted of an unstoppable melee "killer" unit and a load of screening/filler units. I just zapped it to death by the end of turn 2 with some nuclear magic lucky dice rolls and a charge of censor bearers. The guy turned purple and started swearing (relatively loudly) under his breath and calling me a dirty player and that my army selection was ridiculous. I took exception to this and quietly asked him if he had won every game to that point (which I knew he had to get to the top table) and what his opponents reaction had been when they had been swept away by his equally ridiculous army choice ultra killer unit. Well, that was it, he went 'ape' threatening to ask me to 'step outside' and saying hr had lots of mates who would come and sort me out later.......

I'm a big lad and have a black belt in karate and a brown belt in Jujitsu - I'm not agressive at all but I just laughed at him. He stomped of and refused to play.
That's the closest I've ever come to 'fisticuffs' over a game and lets just say it sealed my opinion on tournament games.

I have my own table at home now (9' by6'in my double garage) and I only play with likelminded gentlemanly like players!

Vos

[Private_SeeD]

At my local GW the closest thing we've had is the usual teenage idiots shouting abuse/storming in (asking stupid question, breaking stuff or trying to steal stuff) and won't leave till they're 'helped' or threatened with calling the police. The only other incident a couple of months ago we had two brothers about the age of 10-12 and either one didn't like losing which involved temper tantrums, flying models and sometimes punches aimed at each other.... Haven't been down on a Sunday in some time so I think the manager might have had enough and banned them.

I wasn't there but during a four or five dragons tournament (can't remember where) things nearly got nasty when the team from Swansea somehow got the wrong rules for the tournament and blamed the Newport manager and some nasty threats were said and etc, but luckily cooler heads prevailed. The idiot even complained to GW head office, which the PR department sent him a lovely letter pointing out the merits of stamping collecting if I'm not mistaken.

(borrowed this) Disclaimer: this story may have been written with some artistic licence. However the basic premise is true.

[t-tauri]

Another post removed. Please remember that offensive language will not be tolerated. Any more and this thread will be closed.

[Ixe]

A (female) friend of mine had EXACTLY this kind of thing happen to her.
I basically got her into wargaming when I started as we had been good friends for years and she was very interested in the art side of the miniatures.

Well, after a few years of gaming we both decided to enter a doubles fantasy tournament for a laugh as until then we had basically been playing each other and the regulars at our FLGS.

To cut a long story short, she was "accidentally" touched several times and even had one guy in his 30s "playfully" slap her behind which his team-mate thought was hilarious. This was all despite the fact I would basically go nuts whenever someone did something like that (as I said we had basically grown up together) and the judges refused to do anything as they would need witnesses other than me (?!).

She (valiantly, I must add) continued with the tournament, despite my insistence that we just forfeit and leave as I could see how upset it was making her.
We finished the tournament, came fairly low down on the scoreboard and left.
She sold her army later that week and refused to get back into wargaming at all.

To put this in context, she was 15 at the time as was I...

So, yeah, I can fully believe what eldargal says...

EDIT: I guess we can remember things like this, as a bad experience will stay with you for a long time. I actually remember this event as clearly now as if it happened yesterday due to the extreme nature of it.
But, I guess that's the point, it IS an extreme and unlikely situation, one which WILL happen at some point or another.

Don't take that crap. Call the COPS. What those guys did was a crime, and if they don't learn that lesson from a judge handing down a sentence they never will.

[lolplates]

This thread reminds me of a mate of mine. He doesn't like losing, he raged quit when a guardsman killed abaddon. Punches on in soccer, swears into his Mic playing bd3 and does the controller throw.

He suffers from small man syndrome, basically. He is a great guy but games and sport make him cranky.

Another mate of mine doesn't take losing well either, he refused to stop playing pool until he won. The guy he was playing against is a comp player. My mate stormed off after 6 hours of losing.

I know the pool player too, he said this guy got more angry each time he lost.
I seem to be a magnet for strange people.

Another rage moment was when the angry pool playing mate rage quit pictionary.

[Balerion]

Funny you should mention that, as we are Europeans. Rough housing is a Europe thing? I don't believe that, but that would be breaking my own rules regarding this thread, so, darn.

I think it would only be European if you collapsed on the ground like your back had been broken after receiving a love-tap. Bonus points if you can get the T.O. to come over and investigate.