... and the twin Primarchs Alpahrius and Omegon ... ?

[Tzen]

Tzen, wasn't the original fluff behind the "for the emperor" to sow confusion in the enemy troops? That's how I still view it(thus my sig)...

After all, soldiers would be a bit confused when the marines they thought were bad guys seem to be fighting for the emperor. They would suddenly be distrustful of orders and the cause they are fighting for, perhaps it is THEIR commanders that were turned to the dark side, wasn't that last drill a little bit too harsh? Didn't that last party seem a bit too decadent?

All it takes is some well placed operatives!






To the ones not liking "new" fluff: So you'd rather go back to the days where Tigurius was half-eldar? Are you amish? Fluff changes and expands, deal with it!

What you have said still stands. But with it being the Alpha Legion they would be just as happy using it against themselves, as they would the enemy. Especially given how the legion is now also rooting out traitors within its own ranks.

In regards to the other posts, we still don't know enough of A and O's thought process. We know enough to suggest they want to see Horus succeed, but maybe they have decided that there is another route. Or maybe the Kabal lied to them, or maybe Chaos has managed to take its hold in some members of the legion, maybe even one of the Primarchs and it sends the whole plan to ****. I just don't think we have heard the last of the Twin Primarchs. It's too good of a plot tool to just thrown into the heresy without using it in a great story or twist. Apart from the "oooooo" factor of them being twins, there hasn't been much point in that little surprise just yet. I just think we will see them at each others throats in time! (I hope!)

I don't even want them to regret turning traitor, I just like the idea of one of them seriously disapproving of the others methods. One falling to chaos, the other trying to heed the Kabal or whatever.

[Haskear]

I like to Think of them as loyalists who tried to bring down the HH from the inside, they failed but were branded as traitors. Their first captain was killed by RB and A and O work tirelessly with limited numbers of marines in a guerilla/infiltration like method to bring down the enemies of man, but are constantly hunted by other loyalist forces. Unfortunately some of the alpha legion fall to chaos due to undercover agents succumbing, hence the odd chaos alpha legion war band. I know it doesn't fit with cannon, it's just the way I like to think of it. And it has inspired me to do a small group of loyalist alpha legion marines in true scale.

[Excessus]

Problem is if they are loyalists they would be loyal to the emperor's ideals, not the current imperium...

[Idaan]

Problem is if they are loyalists they would be loyal to the emperor's ideals, not the current imperium...

They never were loyal to the Emperor's ideals. They criticize his plans as too idealistic in "Legion" before the Cabal even approaches them. They fight for the good of humanity, whatever form it may take. They were strictly utilitarian in the beginning, and there's no reason that to believe the warbands that weren't corrupted by Chaos would be any different.

[BigDuke6]

I was thinking how there were 2 primarchs. I agree it works for the Alpha legion. My big question is how doid it happen? I maean the emperor only made 20 so did Alpharius clone himself when he landed on the planet he got to?

[Excessus]

They never were loyal to the Emperor's ideals. They criticize his plans as too idealistic in "Legion" before the Cabal even approaches them. They fight for the good of humanity, whatever form it may take. They were strictly utilitarian in the beginning, and there's no reason that to believe the warbands that weren't corrupted by Chaos would be any different.

True, all though the current imperium doesn't have much love for humanity either. Either way I doubt they would be willing vassals of the corpse emperor...

[Haskear]

That they are only loyal to mankind is an interesting idea both seeing the imperium and chaos for what they are. And I suppose there is always Malal/Malice which would make for an interesting plot.

[Poncho160]

For those who havent read the primarchs book yet:

SPOLIERS BELOW!!!! (I cant figure out how to do spolier tags!!! haha

The short story in the primarchs book says that there is a third option the twins, not just the two the Cabal gave to them. It dosent say what, just that they both dream about it. So I defenently think we will see the AL again.

[Inquisitor Engel]

They never were loyal to the Emperor's ideals. They criticize his plans as too idealistic in "Legion" before the Cabal even approaches them. They fight for the good of humanity, whatever form it may take. They were strictly utilitarian in the beginning, and there's no reason that to believe the warbands that weren't corrupted by Chaos would be any different.

Indeed. I was struck how much their "good of humanity" line sounded like Night Lord pre-Heresy doctrine, though with a slightly less violent bent and a better view of human nature... Both essentially boil down to the idea that humanity doesn't know what's good for it, so other measures are sometimes necessary.

[Xisor]

Indeed. I was struck how much their "good of humanity" line sounded like Night Lord pre-Heresy doctrine, though with a slightly less violent bent and a better view of human nature... Both essentially boil down to the idea that humanity doesn't know what's good for it, so other measures are sometimes necessary.

Quite right too. That said, the Alpha Legion, to an extent, are at least more willing to use human mortals and welcome them into the fold - provided they've 'got the skills'.

In a manner of speaking, the Alpha Legion and the Ultramarines have very similar philosophies in some respects: Guilliman (via the Tetrarch character) in KNF expounds on the notion of what the Ultramarines (and the Legions as a whole) should be doing for humanity, what their role is in shepherding and governing humanity, in allowing for its appropriate degree of self-determination.

In that regard, of course, they reach different answers to questions like 'what is the appropriate degree?' and 'what methods should be used?', but the principles being considered, the nature of the problem being studied is pretty damn intriguing.

(Indeed, Lorgar, Vulkan and Magnus all seem to have pondered the same questions at length. Lorgar's course is well known, Magnus' 'solution' is seen throughout A Thousand Sons and Vulkan's initial choice is expanded on in Promethean Sun:

Vulkan elects to forcibly set aside his philosophical bent, to focus on becoming the general the Emperor desires, rather than what he himself feels innately concerned and preoccupied with. Whilst I think the novella is a bit of a lost opportunity, I can't deny Nick Kyme created more'n a few intriguing bits in it which, despite complaints, I'm rather happy with!

)

The same can be seen, as you say, Engel, in Night Haunter: he decrees that humanity needs the rule of fear, that without it (as per The Dark King) humanity will squander its opportunity.

---

The Ultimate Fate of the Twins

It's said that Guilliman kills Alpharius - that's the rumour spread in the Index Astartes and even therein it's heavily implied to be Alpha Legion propaganda as the Ultramarines, for instance, deny knowledge of the acclaimed event.

It struck me in conversation with a chum yesterday (well, he bears the responsibility for the revelation), is it not possible/appropriate that the Guilliman/Alpharius fight is, in fact, an Alpharius/Omegon fight? One of them has undertaken the guise of Guilliman and some Ultramarines for... whatever purpose, but the event is recorded without knowledge of the twin primarchs, so the observers (perhaps the lower ranked/more-distant-from-the-Primarchs Alpha Legion agents themselves!) don't recognise the 'truth' of the situation: that one twin kills another?

I think that neatly accommodates both the mystery itself (e.g. without writing the entire event off as wholly fictional AL propaganda) with a delightful foreshadowing of exactly how far the two twins have to go from one another ideologically: even if, perhaps, they're still arguing for the same ultimate goal, their version of the 'third choice'.

It would also lend itself to another amusing possibility, though I'm not at all sure how much I would like/hate this to be the case: that it's not Guilliman in the stasis tube on Ultramar, but the surviving twin. That all leads to the question: what of Guilliman?

That last bit isn't so tidy, but the 'truth' of the G/A fight actually being an A/O or O/A fight... well, that I like.

[Haskear]

Of course there is also the question of where Alpharius/Omegon came from or their upbringing. I seem to remember the fluff suggesting they never revealed where they came from not even to Horus. With the amount of systems which where lost before the crusade theirs may have never been found and is still lost to the imperium.

The idea of Guilleman being replaced by one of the twins is pretty cool, particularly as it would have then been him who fought Fulgrim.

[Lupe]

[...]That all leads to the question: what of Guilliman?

Well, I don't know what to say. Maybe Guilliman was already killed by the twins beforehand, and one of them assumed his guise, so the Legion would be in the ideal position to manipulate pretty much both sides of the Heresy. Then the differences of opinion happen.

[Inquisitor Engel]

Well, I don't know what to say. Maybe Guilliman was already killed by the twins beforehand, and one of them assumed his guise, so the Legion would be in the ideal position to manipulate pretty much both sides of the Heresy. Then the differences of opinion happen.

Or rather, Fulgrim happened.

[Navar]

I very much liked it in this book when Omegon was asked:

"Hey I thought you were all called Alpahrius" and he replies:

"Times change"

Or whatever.