Alpha Legion question...

[CutThroatRazor]

I am just discovering the Alpha Legion (I play loyalist and have never really looked into chaos) and I had a couple questions.

Wiki states...

Alpharius himself led a furious counterattack against the Ultramarines and was slain in single combat by Roboute Guilliman. None knew that the Alpha Legion still had another Primarch, who soon adopted the role of his slain brother. This final deception may yet present the Imperium with an unexpected and very nasty surprise...

and then...

Following the start of the Horus Heresy, the Traitor Legion's badge became the hydra, the mythological multiheaded serpent that would grow back two heads for every one that was cut off.

I was wanting to know...

1) The Emperor knew the secret about Alpharious and Omegon but it never states that being twins was the main or only secret.

2) Is it possible that Alpharious was killed earlier (before being discovered) and that produced Omegon and later when Alpharious was killed by RB it produced another (like a Hydra)?

also...

Do people view them more as Traitors or Loyalist? and What is known about their mutations? Part of wiki says they are not mutated and then later on in appearance, it states they do have mutations. ???

Thanks for any and all help. Really interested in these guys.

[FaithWraith]

1) Probably more than just the twin thing with all their secrecy.

2) Not likely

3) Personally I view the Alpha legion as loyalist but they failed in making Horus defeat the Emperor so I'm not so sure as to what their goal after the heresy are.

4) I have no idea about there mutations.

[Eetion]

well first of all... Its wiki...
The battle in question where Alpharius is killed has several possibilities.

Alpharius is killed.
Omegon is killed.
Sheed Ranko (i think its sheed, The AL Terminator captain) was impersonating one of the Primarchs and he is the one who was killed... I also believe it was Sheed who Dinas Chayne wounded as well.
All the deaths are misinformation planted within a real battle, as all details regarding this are brought into disrepute.
The battle is completely fake,

Dont hold too much weight on the 1 or both of the primarchs being dead... or alive... or somewhere in between

I think your taking the Hydra thing a bit too far on that one... I always say it as a metaphor for the ALs command structure... several cells independent of each other capable of acting independently, but supporting a larger whole.


loyalist or traitor... traitor or loyalist... If their loyalists... why didnt horus win to destroy chaos? There probably somewhere in between playing for a 3rd option.

Well the old IA they had mutations... used as shock tactics and weapons keeping them hidden until suprise could be gained.

Personally I see them as Chaos.

[All Cing Eye]

To answer your questions.

There's alot of doubt whether Alpharius was killed. It was common practice for members of the Alpha legion to call themselves Alpharius and to impersonate him.

It is never stated whether the Emperor knew about Omegon, he is pretty knowledgeable, but it seems Omegon was successfully hidden (no one outside the legion knows of him)

They are viewed as Traitors for their actions in the Heresy and their continuing attacks on the Imperium. But their true motives are unknown. Some Alpha Legion Cells, have invariably fallen to Chaos and worship it, while others are basically pure and not much different from Loyalist marines.

[Bonzai]

This is just my thoughts, and in no way cannon, but I always like the idea that there never was an Alpharious. That Omegron was the actual primarch, and Alpharious is, and was always a patsy/fall guy for him.

The Horus Heresy novels have proved that there were 2 primarchs for the Alpha Legion, but I can't help but like my idea a little better.

[CutThroatRazor]

I think your taking the Hydra thing a bit too far on that one... I always say it as a metaphor for the ALs command structure... several cells independent of each other capable of acting independently, but supporting a larger whole.

I wasnt assuming the Hydra thing was true. Just asking what people thought about the idea. Kind of fun in my opinion. Not likely but definitely interesting...

also...

*I should have started by saying, I have only read the first three books. I really want to read more of the HH books now because of the Alpha Legion (raven guard too...and hoping for some white scars love). I dont want to be confused, so I am assuming that I shouldnt just start back with Legion.

I have never looked into playing Chaos or focusing on the Chaos fluff (other than what you read from the Loyalist point of view). I have always had a interest in the World Eaters and Berserkers but after discovering the Alpha Legion I am looking forward to learning more about them. I may even build my first Chaos army!

Any other books/sources I can look into for Alpha Legion info?

[CutThroatRazor]

This is just my thoughts, and in no way cannon, but I always like the idea that there never was an Alpharious. That Omegron was the actual primarch, and Alpharious is, and was always a patsy/fall guy for him.

The Horus Heresy novels have proved that there were 2 primarchs for the Alpha Legion, but I can't help but like my idea a little better.

I love this. With so many possibilities, I am really starting to feel like I am about to buy a new army!

[Orthodox]

*I should have started by saying, I have only read the first three books. I really want to read more of the HH books now because of the Alpha Legion (raven guard too...and hoping for some white scars love). I dont want to be confused, so I am assuming that I shouldnt just start back with Legion.

Read Legion right away. Most of the books don't reference the others, and don't even say when they are supposed to be set in relation to each other. Also, they are by different authors about different subjects, so there's no reason to think of them as a unified thing the way Horus Rising-Galaxy in Flames were. Legion is a really good book even for people who don't know anything about 40k.

[Wyrmwood]

The hydra is a metaphor for the Alpha Legion's fluidity and adaptability in all methods of war, so I don't think it's wise to take it literally. Of course, if you're playing corrupted Alpha Legionnaires it would be a very fun idea for a Daemon Prince: he losses an arm, and two grow back etc.

As for their loyalties, they were split during the Heresy. As of 40K, there are enough examples of corrupted legionnaires for us to make an informed opinion.

[CutThroatRazor]

Question...

With the possibility of them remaining loyalist and the numerous chapters that are shrouded in mystery and have unknown foundings...is it possible that the Alpha Legion could fake a loyalist chapter? I mean, they are a legion, not a company. So they should have the resources. And they did infiltrate the Raven Guard!

So, why couldnt a specific group form a fake chapter and continue doing the emperor's work. I think it would be quite simple. Form the chapter, show up somewhere and save the day. Wait a few years (or hundred years) and do it again. Keep doing this until you are perceived as a valued and historically accurate chapter (historically because the only information they would have is battle reports from years prior).

The only thing that would cause a problem is the gene seed tax. It would take years before anything was done about it. They could always steal it from other chapters (like we have seen in the fluff before).

I am only asking because I am considering sitting down and working all this out on paper so I can create a new chapter. I think the idea would be neat because it would be suspicious to see a loyalist chapter that not much is known about, sporting the alpha legion colors (blue and green, sgts with green helmet and blue stripe) and being very secretive.

It would give me the opportunity to build a massive space marine collection (and chaos space marines)...maybe even mix and match the armor.

AND...isnt this kind of like the Blood Ravens...arent they thought to be a chapter from the Thousand Sons? Just curious.

[Orthodox]

Question...

With the possibility of them remaining loyalist and the numerous chapters that are shrouded in mystery and have unknown foundings...is it possible that the Alpha Legion could fake a loyalist chapter? I mean, they are a legion, not a company. So they should have the resources. And they did infiltrate the Raven Guard!

So, why couldnt a specific group form a fake chapter and continue doing the emperor's work. I think it would be quite simple. Form the chapter, show up somewhere and save the day. Wait a few years (or hundred years) and do it again. Keep doing this until you are perceived as a valued and historically accurate chapter (historically because the only information they would have is battle reports from years prior).

The only thing that would cause a problem is the gene seed tax. It would take years before anything was done about it. They could always steal it from other chapters (like we have seen in the fluff before).

I am only asking because I am considering sitting down and working all this out on paper so I can create a new chapter. I think the idea would be neat because it would be suspicious to see a loyalist chapter that not much is known about, sporting the alpha legion colors (blue and green, sgts with green helmet and blue stripe) and being very secretive.

It would give me the opportunity to build a massive space marine collection (and chaos space marines)...maybe even mix and match the armor.

AND...isnt this kind of like the Blood Ravens...arent they thought to be a chapter from the Thousand Sons? Just curious.

Apparently they take over other chapters from time to time. If you spend money recklessly, buy this. If you don't read or spend money, just look here

[jareddm3]

So, why couldnt a specific group form a fake chapter and continue doing the emperor's work. I think it would be quite simple. Form the chapter, show up somewhere and save the day. Wait a few years (or hundred years) and do it again. Keep doing this until you are perceived as a valued and historically accurate chapter (historically because the only information they would have is battle reports from years prior).

And yet the opposite is just as true. Why become a fake chapter and try to support the Imperium, when you can disguise yourself as a real chapter and perform heretical acts to tarnish their name! Obviously you'd want it to be somewhere the real chapter isn't likely to find you, but where an inquisitor might catch wind of the "chapter's" actions and attempt to bring down the hammer on them.

AND...isnt this kind of like the Blood Ravens...arent they thought to be a chapter from the Thousand Sons? Just curious.

Let's not open that can of worms again. Enough has already been said on the subject.

[adamwelton]

There seem to be hints at Alpharius being the good twin and Omegon the bad. Alpharius wanted to carry out the bidding of the Cabal whereas Omegon didn't. Alpharius was killed in the Ultras' attack thanks to Omegon giving the game away, leaving him to safely turn his Legion to the will of Chaos. That's just my two pee of course based on what I've read. I've not had a go at Deliverance Lost yet so I'm probably wrong, but that's the way it's going for me at present.

[Scalebug]

There seem to be hints at Alpharius being the good twin and Omegon the bad. Alpharius wanted to carry out the bidding of the Cabal whereas Omegon didn't.

Then again, following the Cabal isn't being "good", it still meant joining Horus and wiping the Imperium/humanity...

[adamwelton]

If you don't understand the point I was making then have another go. No Primarch could be said to be "good", even Sanguinius. Their methods and ideals were no better than that of the Alphas, yet they all despised the Legion for fighting their wars in such a dishonourable manner.

I like the idea of Alpharius and Omegon secretly falling out, with the ultimate betrayal being not Alpharius' work for the Cabal, but Omegon's refusal to countenance his twin brother's own "betrayal" of the Emperor and Mankind. Plans within plans within plans...

[MyNameDidntFit]

There seem to be hints at Alpharius being the good twin and Omegon the bad. Alpharius wanted to carry out the bidding of the Cabal whereas Omegon didn't. Alpharius was killed in the Ultras' attack thanks to Omegon giving the game away, leaving him to safely turn his Legion to the will of Chaos. That's just my two pee of course based on what I've read. I've not had a go at Deliverance Lost yet so I'm probably wrong, but that's the way it's going for me at present.

Of course, this could go the opposite way. Alpharius' machinations cause the death of Omegon at Roboute's hands so as to stop the majority of the chapter falling to Chaos--leading only to the occasional individual/warband of Alpha's fighting against the Imperium we see in the current fluff. Leaving Alpharius and his 'loyal' marines off doing whatever it is you do when you're the sneakiest guy in the galaxy.

[adamwelton]

I like it. Nice one, that fits. Where's the Rep button when you need one?

[AlphariusOmegon20]

Of course, this could go the opposite way. Alpharius' machinations cause the death of Omegon at Roboute's hands so as to stop the majority of the chapter falling to Chaos--leading only to the occasional individual/warband of Alpha's fighting against the Imperium we see in the current fluff. Leaving Alpharius and his 'loyal' marines off doing whatever it is you do when you're the sneakiest guy in the galaxy.

The thing is.... It can also be argued that it fits the opposite way too. Omegon carrying on the guise of some AL being "good" and Alpharius IS really dead.

You can't be certain either way. This is AL we're talking about here.

[Charistoph]

The thing is.... It can also be argued that it fits the opposite way too. Omegon carrying on the guise of some AL being "good" and Alpharius IS really dead.

You can't be certain either way. This is AL we're talking about here.

Or BOTH. Wait,

Part of Alpha Legion training is modification so that all the Brothers of a cell look, think, and act identically. To imagine that the closest of the Primarch's retinue couldn't/wouldn't/didn't do the same is ludicrous. I also believe there is a story about the whole Legion pulling a Spartacus and calling themselves Alpharius, while in review!

These guys are so sneaky and Infiltrating that they would be ones who would Infiltrate the Heresy to bring them down while at the same time Infiltrating Segmentum Ultramar to bring THEM down. They are so caught up in it, it wouldn't be surprising that they Infiltrated themselves!

You want to know how there are so many Space Wolf and Grey Knight armies? That's right, most of them are actually Alpha Legion.