Vampire Counts Vs Dwarves

[stiggie]

Hey guys, played two games today against a Dwarf player and lost both absolutely terribly,

His list consisted of

1x Runelord with a 1+ re-rollable save and 2+ ward from shooting etc on an anvil
2x demi-runelords (forgot their names)
2x Thanes
Bugman
15 bugman rangers
20 handgunners
cannon (flaming rune and engineer)
organ gun
2 units of 30 warriors

I used

Lord: lv3, red fury, quickblood, 4+/4++ Ogre blade
hero: (fear bomb equipment + book of arkhan)
suicide necromancer
60x skeletons
20x Skeletons
28x ghouls
3 spirit hosts (fielded individually obvs)
corpse cart
terrorgheist


his +5 Dispel dice a turn and -1 to my power dice a turn really screwed things over.. and the anvil easily took out spirit hosts and slowed down the terrorgheist (being able to kill it both times without doing anything)

Just wondering if theres any specific items/tactics that VC players can use against such lists??

[bluemage]

How many points what this list?

Anyways when you're opponent is packing that many dispel dice you just need to give up on having a magic phase, its just not going to happen.

It looks like you've spent way to many points on your core, vc core is just terrible compared to everything else in the list so always take min core.

What happened when your units made it into combat? Your list looks like its rather weak in the combat department and really struggles to kill stuff. I think you need to consider taking some crypt horrors and some grave guard so that when you make it into combat you'll have some effective combat units. Right now you have your lord who can only do so much. The terrorgheist and you ghouls which just while capable in combat won't take out large blocks on their own.

[ARabidNun]

bluemage is correct. Stick with taking your minimum for core troops when possible. A Terrorgeist is a glass sword. It can wreak havok on most armies, but is very fragile to shooting and with a lousy 6+ regen it could die very quickly. Normally it is the first thing my opponents target when I field one, so either give them plenty of other targets such as breaking up your unit of spirits into 3 seperate units (great for diversion or misdirection) or leave it at home.

Vargeists strike fear into many opponents (especially a unit 6+ strong) but a toughness of 4 and frenzy can be very disadvantages. I prefer a nice solid block of horrors of the crypt, even if they are using flaming attacks, a big enough unit should manage to reach combat and with toughness 5, deflect most missle weapons and a movement of 6 will get you to the dwarf lines faster.

Hex wraiths are great fun, but like the terrorgeist very fragile. Their advantage is they are cavalry (not a monster) and can hide behind a unit as you march forward.

Since he is packing one huge anti-magic list my suggestion is either spamming a couple of level 1 necromancers supported by a mortis engine for the +2 cast boost and maybe a power stone (additional 2 dice to cast a spell) for those weaker or crucial magic phases. Otherwise give him alot of juicy targets such as a couple of single base spirits to make him think twice about using his magic upgraded warmachines or anvil, pump up you ghouls to 30-35 minimum and a unit of 40 skeletons is usually sufficient. Drop the corpse cart, its movement of 4 will give your opponent plenty of turns to shoot while you wait to drag the thing along.

Hope this helps.
-Rabid

[Razakel]

If this guy takes two Runesmiths and a Runelord as standard, to metagame him in your next game take absolute minimum magic. Don't upgrade casting levels or anything, that way he'll have tons of wasted points.

Your only other option in this regard is to load up insanely heavily on magic and try to irri. force a few big spells every turn.

If you decide not to get magic, as the above poster said, you should probably cut core units and add in a bunch of other stuff (I'd recommend grave guard to start), and see how you do.

[stiggie]

Heyy, yeah, I know how much the core units rely on magic to do well in combat, I didnt expect the +5 and -1 to mess me over so badly..

it's 2000 points by the way.

and I have 30 graveguard etc which I could use. and drop the magic levels for more rare/specials etc..

spirit hosts don't work as he always uses the 2D6 hits on D3 units etc. kills the hosts outright making them a waste. I'd worry the same will work for hexwraiths.

I don't have any crypt ghouls/vargheists, though I am tempted to get some of the gheists..

[mistrmoon]

Heyy, yeah, I know how much the core units rely on magic to do well in combat, I didnt expect the +5 and -1 to mess me over so badly..

it's 2000 points by the way.

and I have 30 graveguard etc which I could use. and drop the magic levels for more rare/specials etc..

spirit hosts don't work as he always uses the 2D6 hits on D3 units etc. kills the hosts outright making them a waste. I'd worry the same will work for hexwraiths.

I don't have any crypt ghouls/vargheists, though I am tempted to get some of the gheists..

If he wants to play that way let him, using the 2d6 on d3 units means it only works on a 4+ and a 1-3 is a misfire... He is doing that right? The trick against an anvil is target saturation and speed. The anvil loves smashing small support units and slowing down big blocks. Also agree with everyone else who mentioned this: MEGA magic or none at all, none at all is probably the better choice.

[stiggie]

If he wants to play that way let him, using the 2d6 on d3 units means it only works on a 4+ and a 1-3 is a misfire... He is doing that right? The trick against an anvil is target saturation and speed. The anvil loves smashing small support units and slowing down big blocks. Also agree with everyone else who mentioned this: MEGA magic or none at all, none at all is probably the better choice.

No, he's been rolling.. and on a 1 = miscast.. 2-3 = normal, 4-6 = higher..

would explain some parts of it lol.. and yeah I'm tempted to try a no magic list next time I go against him :3

[anthioram]

Well, your opponent is either cheating or has failed to understand the rules (the latter being quite weird).
Before rolling for the avil you choose the rune and the version. A normal rune will work on a 2+ and miscast on a roll of 1; if you want to cast the big version, it will work on a 4+ and miscast on a 1-3....
No wonder it was being so effective...

[stiggie]

Well, your opponent is either cheating or has failed to understand the rules (the latter being quite weird).
Before rolling for the avil you choose the rune and the version. A normal rune will work on a 2+ and miscast on a roll of 1; if you want to cast the big version, it will work on a 4+ and miscast on a 1-3....
No wonder it was being so effective...

Yeah lol,, well,, I'll have a read of the book whenever I next get a hold of it and make it known to him.

BTW I'm tempted to try a shadows vampire lord with vampire lore necromancers to get pit of shades..

warmachines = auto fail purple sun
anvil = warmachine
anvil + purple sun = -3 to his dispel pool straight away..

tempted to get up as fast as I can somehow then throw 6 dice hoping for an irrisistable force (and not a 3-4 on miscast roll)

people think it would work?

[Montegue]

Stiggie - He can hit the rune of Wrath and Ruin either with regular or Ancient Power. Ancient Power requires a 4+ on the roll, unless he's using the named character. Regular power requires a 2+ on the roll. Both versions slow movement.

[anthioram]

Yeah lol,, well,, I'll have a read of the book whenever I next get a hold of it and make it known to him.

BTW I'm tempted to try a shadows vampire lord with vampire lore necromancers to get pit of shades..

warmachines = auto fail purple sun
anvil = warmachine
anvil + purple sun = -3 to his dispel pool straight away..

tempted to get up as fast as I can somehow then throw 6 dice hoping for an irrisistable force (and not a 3-4 on miscast roll)

people think it would work?

Check your army book. Your general has to take lore of vampires so you can't take shadows. You could try using some vampire heroes with shadows but then, if you want a good chance of getting pit of shades, it's going to be really expensive.
What you can do is spam lore of death necromancers and try for an irresistible purple sun but it's shorter range can be a problem.

I think the best is to forget magic altogether.... If your opponent is using so many points in magic defense he is not using them in combat/shooting troops.

[datalink7]

Hey guys, played two games today against a Dwarf player and lost both absolutely terribly,

His list consisted of

1x Runelord with a 1+ re-rollable save and 2+ ward from shooting etc on an anvil
2x demi-runelords (forgot their names)
2x Thanes
Bugman
15 bugman rangers
20 handgunners
cannon (flaming rune and engineer)
organ gun
2 units of 30 warriors

I used

Lord: lv3, red fury, quickblood, 4+/4++ Ogre blade
hero: (fear bomb equipment + book of arkhan)
suicide necromancer
60x skeletons
20x Skeletons
28x ghouls
3 spirit hosts (fielded individually obvs)
corpse cart
terrorgheist


his +5 Dispel dice a turn and -1 to my power dice a turn really screwed things over.. and the anvil easily took out spirit hosts and slowed down the terrorgheist (being able to kill it both times without doing anything)

Just wondering if theres any specific items/tactics that VC players can use against such lists??

Do you still want to take an all commers list against him, or something specifically against this list?

Against this list, I noticed he has no stone thrower. This hurts him a lot for massed troops.

Take something like this:

Ghoul King
-Ogre Blade
-Dragonbane Gem
-The Other Tricksters Shard
-Red Fury

Vampire BSB
-Heavy Armor and Shield
-Aura of Dark Majesty
-Fear Incarnate
-Screaming Banner

Wight King
-Nightshroud
-Ironcurse Icon

50 Crypt Ghouls
-Crypt Ghast

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dire Wolves

36 Grave Guard
-Full Command
-Banner of the Barrows

2 Fell Bats

2 Fell Bats

2 Fell Bats

Spirit Host

Spirit Host

Total Cost: 1999

I just came up with that on the fly so you might have to tweak to your liking.

Essentially, the SGK and BSB go with the Ghouls in Horde Formation. Since he is running a Rune Lord, his leadership will be 9. -1 from Aura means he only has 8. That means, with fear incarnate, if he has a BSB he only has a 47% chance to pass his fear test. Without a BSB he only has a 22% chance. With Ghouls being WS3, they will only be hit on 5+, and hit on 3+. And your Ghoul King will tear through dwarves like a hot knife through butter.

The Wight King goes with the Grave Guard to give you another solid combat block. Because of Nightshroud, he will only be wounded on 5+ by the Thanes, and 6+ by the regular dwarves. With three wounds he should stick around.

Then you have a TON of chaff. Guess what? Some of it WILL get through and run into his warmachines on turn two.

Both of your combat blocks should tear through both of his combat blocks, and then he has nothing left really for you to fight. Just mop up time. With 50 ghouls, and no stonethrower, he has no chance to whittle it down to any kind of reasonable level.

And his +5 dispel dice and -1 to cast? Useless, since you are essentially ignoring the magic phase:P

[madival]

Quick question on the original post. Did the dwarf player know your original list and tailor ? Cause its a perfect counter.

[stiggie]

Quick question on the original post. Did the dwarf player know your original list and tailor ? Cause its a perfect counter.

heyy,, he knew he was against vampires but it is his all comers list..

I've decided..

I'm going to try have a 2500pt game with him.. drop the lord for Mannfred and add another gheist in, reduce core to min and add something else in (don't know what yet)

once the anvil is gone it's easy pickings really..

if he refuses.. I'll drop the lord to LV1, add mannfred hero level and 2 necromancers (death) (hoping 4 spells is enough to get a double or purple sun)


seems the best route atm.

Suggestions?