Can i ask why people are calling for the unit cap to be removed from black guard? Is this just people wishing to field the like a horde and not the small combat elite units that they are?
Can i ask why people are calling for the unit cap to be removed from black guard? Is this just people wishing to field the like a horde and not the small combat elite units that they are?
8th edition doesn't have unit caps.
Spearmen with hatred at 8 pts with shields is about right. Possibly 8 pts without shields, 0.5 pts for the shield if GW feels like going that way (since the battalion is selling warriors without shields as an option).
RXB should go up a point or two.
Corsairs should be 9-10 pts.
Witches more expensive.
Hydra should be 220ish with no hatred on the monster, like in SoM.
Dragon and Manticore should be cheaper.
Cauldron with a lesser passive ability, and other bound spells.
Broken magic items all removed.
Not sure if this was meant to be sarcastic, but if it wasn't then this was probably a bad example. Eternal guard are probably one of the worst units in the game.Originally Posted by Why
I'm not sure if i like the idea of the cauldron being on a chariot, even if that was its original configuration. i'd can see it swapping to a casket of souls type thing with 48" bound spells, possibly with boosted versions if they are cast on Khainite units.
I hope the Khainite theme is expanded on, the death hag's/assassins etc need to get access to 4+ wards as with step up and supporting attacks they just can't survive currently. I wonder if the disciple of khaine from W:AR might make and appearance. Could be nice
I can see 1-2 point rises across the board for the infantry units, with the cav coming down.
The mages need toning down, but also get a slight points reduction (empire lvl 4 got a 10point drop). limit casting to 6 dice and go back to +1 to cast. I can see a version of the sac dag and power of darkness becoming some kind of lore attribute/innate ability.
Obviously the rares need adjusting in both cases.
Does seem with the way things have been going some kind of monstrous unit will make it in.
'Hold the line, sons of the Empire
I see the same fear in you that would take the heart of me,
but fear not for we don't auto break and can re-roll for it next turn.
a day may come when Robin Cruddace writes a good book, but it is not this day
a day may come when Ewar doesn't powergame, but it is not this day
This day our dice will roll sixes
This day we will be victorious!
Lore of Darkness.
Lore attribute; Inflict 1 hit (strength equal to the number of dice used to cast the spell) to the caster, or 1 model (friend of foe) within 18''. Gain 1 power dice if a wound is inflicted.
Signature spell: Power of Darkness. 4+
Same.
1.Chillwind. Magic Missile. 6+
D6+1, otherwise same. Extended: 10+. Range 48''. D6+D3 Str 4 hits. no Shooting if wounded.
2. Doombolt. Magic Missile. 7+
D6+1, otherwise same. Extended: 11+. Range 36''. D6+D3 Str 5 hits.
4. Word of Pain. Hex. 8+
Same. Extended: 14+. Range 48''
3. Death Spasm. Direct Damage. 10+
Range 18''. Seclect 1 model. Pass Strength test or dies. No saves. Models in Base contact suffer Str4 hit. Extended: 16+. Range 36'''.
5.Dominion. Hex. 10+
Range 12''. Select 1 action (move, shoot or cast spells). The unit may not perform this action. Extended: 14+. Range 24''.
6. Arnizipals Black Horror. Direct Damage. 11+
Range 18''. Large template. Strength test or wound, no saves. Panic test if wounds. Extended: 17+. Range 36'' Scatters D6''. Strength test or wound, no saves. Panic test if wounds.
My Custom Warhammer Army Book. WHFB Stygian
....and, as always.... thanks for reading.
Interesting ideas, death spasm looks a bit good though, esp if you hex strength before hand somehow.
'Hold the line, sons of the Empire
I see the same fear in you that would take the heart of me,
but fear not for we don't auto break and can re-roll for it next turn.
a day may come when Robin Cruddace writes a good book, but it is not this day
a day may come when Ewar doesn't powergame, but it is not this day
This day our dice will roll sixes
This day we will be victorious!
Yeah.. I pulled it from the 5th ed book... I used to love using that spell back in the day...
My Custom Warhammer Army Book. WHFB Stygian
....and, as always.... thanks for reading.
It's a bit sad that 7th edition forced so much special rules creep onto the two elf armies that were released (and WE started the special rules creep back in 6th). 8th edition does a much better job of letting great statlines shine through. Obviously hatred makes DE better, but I think 8th edition is much more suited to having a successful book which looks more like the 6th edition DE book.
Cheap DE spearmen (let's say 7 pts with shield and no hatred).
Corsairs as an alternative core - better against shooting and offensively, but slightly more expensive. 9 pts, SDC is the only special rule.
Witch elves and executioners as cheap elites throwing out either lots of low strength poison, or high strength killing blow attacks (10ish pts each).
Black guard with stubborn, and warrior elite. Don't need the second attack tacked on. 12-13 pts.
etc...
The problem with the 6th edition elf books was that good stats but low survivability didn't work in 6th edition (or 7th), and the fact that the elves overpaid for soft stats (WS and I) was silly. 8th corrects that at the core IMO. You'd almost have to release HE and DE back to back to make a change like this, since they're always viewed in comparison to each other.
They're only small units at the moment because of the unit cap which prevents them from being a horde.
Also unit caps are gone from 8th edition so it's natural for them to be removed in the next dark elf book.
Also they aren't very survivable being To3 with a measly 5+ save so people would like to take bigger units so they can survive getting hit by spells/shooting without having the unit get crippled completely.
Plan B kill it with fire
Meat is Murder tasty, tasty murder
I d like to see hatred removed from the army except on characters and bestowed by either the cauldron or a disciple of khaine. I would add an army special rule that allows DE to reroll failed to.wound rolls called something like savagery or cruelty.
DE spearman at 8pts. Corsairs at 10. New characters. All the new crap that comes w 8th
Hatred is actually not that big of a game breaker, in the age of steadfast and deathstarhammer. The army mainly needs slight alterations to point costs and certain magic items reworked and/or removed, but it has to be done on a case by case basis, as the DE book's balance issues are systemic and multiple. Here is where I would begin:
Magic Phase-
Allow DE wizards to cast with 7 Dice, but no more. Power of Darkness should be a default spell for Lore of Darkness, not available to all DE wizards.
Magic Items-
Ring of Hotek- Raise it to 35 points to prevent it from being carried by a unit champ or easily defended peg hero.
Pendant of Kaeleth- If they keep it, change it to an Arcane Item so its a difficult choice to take.
Sacrificial Dagger- Sacrifice a model to reroll the entire casting roll, once per magic phase only.
Characters-
Move Assasins back to the hero slot.
Witch characters and Assasins be allowed to select gear (other than armor) and gifts with 50 of each, ala vamp heros.
Core Infantry-
Price down Corsairs to 8 per model and remove the Sea Serpent banner from the game.
Spearmen- Allow for a HW and shield option with warriors and make them 8 per model.
Harpies- Move to special
Witches- Move to core and price at 11 per model. (see cauldron changes to understand justification)
Crossbowmen- Raise cost one point per model.
Elites-
Cold One Knights- Price them down to 25 per model.
Black Guard- Remove unit cap, but raise cost to 15 per model.
Executioners- Either make them WS5 or drop the points to 11 per model. (see cauldron)
Shades- Unit size 10-15 and do not allow assasins to be hidden in the unit.
Chariots- Fine as is.
Rares-
Bolt Throwers- Reduce cost to 75 per model and dump the 2/1 choice.
War Hydra- Change Handler rules to bring it in line with the main rulebook, dump hatred on the beast, and increase its cost to 200.
Cauldron- Obviously move the Cauldron to rare, thereby removing its BSB option. Rather than select a buff, it should radiate frenzy to all units within 6" and a 5+ ward to all khainite units in the same radius, including itself. Reclassify it as a 3 wound war machine with T10 and drop the cost to 130. No more KB stubborn witches, no more death blender black guard, and it now has to stick close to the army to do its job.
I agree with many points here. I just have a few thoughts:
Yes. And then another one. And another one. That should just about do.
Re Pendant of Kaeleth-
The reason I suggested making it arcane is that the main issue with the item currently is the unkillable Peg Lord of Infinite Cockblocking. I guess making it Enchanted might work (no crown and pendant on the same model), but I think having a lord level wizard with what amounts to a 2+ save should require sacrificing the option for the Dagger or scroll.
re Sacrifical Dagger-
I meant to imply that it would provide no bonus dice, just allow for rerolling one casting attempt per turn, letting you be a little more agressive with your dice pool by using less dice per cast or possibly negating a miscast.
I think most of this is fine. The 6" is a bit small for something that can't march in a normally offensive army. The only change I'd have would be to increase the radius.
While I think this is a good idea, I can't see this happening in the next book because it would cause a remake in the core plastics to be done. Normally this wouldn't be a big issue, but the Dark Elves have one of the largest metal infantry lines of all the books at the moment. Given that they'd need to be redone in plastic along with making whatever new they'd put into the book, I'm not sure there would be space for redoing the dark elf spearmen plastics.Spearmen- Allow for a HW and shield option with warriors and make them 8 per model.
Agreed.
Executioners should be great weapons in initiative order not ASL.
Black Guard should be capped at 25 instead of 20. Allowing slightly larger more playable units but not hordes.
Assassins should remain in the points allocation as they are - outside any existing categories.
Cold Ones to keep stupidity but in addition have frenzy.
One unit of Witch Elves to be core if you have a Death Hag.
One unit of Black Guard to be core if you have Malekith.
One unit of Cold One Knights to be core if you have Malus Darkblade.
Harpies to be improved, and moved to special, but core if you have Beastlord Rakarth in the army.
Improve harpies by giving them 3D6 random movement rule, and -1 to hit. Means no stand and shoot and less vulnerable to shooting.
Hydras to remain exactly as they are including points, or if there is a points increase to gain 3+ regeneration instead of 4+. Hatred to stay with Hydra. They know they are superior too.
Keep unlimited power dice but restrict to Dark Magic - this can work for you as well as against you.
Give Dark Elf casters one extra spell per level as standard.
Make focus familiar part of spell lore, ditch sacrificial dagger and power of darkness.
Merge some magic items - e.g. Armour of Darkness and Ring of Darkness.
Make Warpsword of Khaine something any Dark Elf Dreadlord can have, not just Malus, set at 65 points.
Bring Malekith down in points so he and dragon can feature in lower point games.
Allow Dark Elves to take Ogre Maneaters as mercenaries.
Last edited by Druchii Monkey; 01-05-2012 at 20:40.
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Got them mixed with Witched I guess heh. But they are still overpriced in their current form.
Emissary, I think the warriors come with hand weapon arms already, unless that was changed in the last round of reboxing. In fact I had to redo a bunch of mine when the last book hit the shelves.
And Druchii Monkey, no one is going to buff what is the single most powerul army in Warhammer. I would personally like to purchase a bag of whatever you are smoking, good sir, unless you are trolling, in which case you kind of jumped the shark a bit.
I think there's 1 hand weapon per 4 model in the warriors box (champ arm). If GW made that change, I think it would more likely come from the release of a new warriors box set, including crossbows, handweapons and spears as options.
Why exactly do you feel their current cost is balanced?
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