Getting back into it, 1.5k Daemons of Chaos, feedback appreciated

[Johnnyfrej]

Fantasy Army: DoC

Hello anyone who actually reads this. I'm FINALLY getting around to hobbying again after a nearly 3-year exodus (due to a deployment and going back to school). Now that summer is coming up I've cleaned out my boxes and boxes of hobby, started selling the old and the unused, and preparing to start building and painting.

I choose Daemons because they are, simply, the easiest army to start with. They don't require a lot of work and time to assemble, are simply to paint, and rather straightforward to play. I will be starting Warriors and Beastman afterword once I am more confident that my skills have returned.

Anyway here is my two lists I have so far. Both are nearly identical, but have a slight tweak. The first list has three large core units, the second has two larger core units and more points in Special/Rare.

Here is what is constant:

Skulltaker (General)

Herald of Tzeentch (BSB)
-Master of Sorcery (Life)
-Spell-breaker
-Battle-Standard Bearer

Here are the varient lists, A and B:

List A

25 Bloodletters
-full command
(with Skulltaker)

20 Horrors
-full command
-Icon of Sorcery
(with Herald)

20 Bloodletters
-full command

4 Flamers

3 Fiends

List B

34 Bloodletters
-full command
(with Skulltaker)

25 Horrors
-full command
-Icon of Sorcery
(with Herald)

3 Flamers

3 Flamers

3 Fiends

So tell me what you guys think. These lists are not designed to be super-beardy-cheesy, just overall well-rounded.

[Johnnyfrej]

lol I really don't know why I bother trying to find good advice here.

[Johnnyfrej]

I'd personally choose list A, anyone going to bother with a response?

[purge the daemon]

list b due to you having more flamers. small units for daemons don't work as well as the large ones so definitely list b. list a is much worse 20 die way to fast.

[HalfBlood]

Daemons are alot harder to play then WoC. So starting with Daemons might give you trouble against some armies..

You will also find that daemons in games under 2,400 are extremely hard to play due to the lack of strong level 4 wizards(excluding horrors), and lack of a Lord/GD.


Second list is better due to more survivable units and more flamers.

I would adjust the second list like this...

Adjust the fiends to about 1-2, these guys are meant for charge blocking/warmachine hunting they wont last long in CC against solid units so dont waste to many points on them.

Skulltaker is a cool character, however for this point level I would take a Herald because hes cheaper, and will provide a buff for the letters.

I would also try bump up the letter unit to 39 + herald. To make 4 ranks of 10.

I dont play 1,500 with daemons, but here is what I would do with your list...


Herald of Khorne
Armor of Khorne
BsB

This change from Skulltaker gives you an extra 35Pts to spend.

Herald of Tz
MoS (Life/Shadow)
SpellBreaker
(BsB is moved to HoK)

39 Bloodletters
-full command
- Icon of Endless War
(HoK)

3 Flamers

3 Flamers

1 Fiends

(This gives you an extra 110 to spend)


So now Im left with

20 Horrors
-full command

35pts from Herald swap

110pts for reduction of fiends.

Im not sure what to do with your remaining points, maybe add 2 more Flamers and then spend the rest on the Horror Unit

[Johnnyfrej]

Thanks for the feedback, glad someone was able to read this lol

Here is my new list:

Herald of Tzeentch (General)
-Master of Sorcery
--Lore of Life
-Spell Breaker

+24 Horrors (5x5)
-full command

Herald of Khorne
-Battle Standard Bearer
--Banner of Sundering
-Armor of Khorne

+35 Bloodletters (6x6)
-full command
-Icon of Endless War

5 Flamers

5 Flamers

[Adjudicator]

nice. the revised list above looks like it could do some damage, especially the letters/ HoK unit

[Johnnyfrej]

Anyone else have any advice or objection to this list?

[squirtopus]

If you want to win with deamons its really easy:

rule nr 1: all your core except letters is ****, unless you make a deamonette deathstar with 3 siren song herald and go for the razorbomb butt still that is iffy, won a tournament with it once but i got lucky

so for core, go blocks of 30-35 letters, run em 7 wide or horde depending on opponent.

horrors are worthless, really utterly, totally worthless. Half of em go down to any decent uber spell ( dwellers, sun, etc) their magic is dreadfull compared to a loremaster tz herald so don't waste any dice or points on those.

Core : 2 x 30 letters, one with extra charge rag, both with full command and a herald with just armour of khorne, no other equip on herald, nice and cheap, make one of em your bsb and try to keep him on the safer side of combat.

1 tzeentch herald, loremaster with either life or light, i prefer light, is also a must.

Stuff up your rare till the max with flamers, don't even think about getting anything else. Flamers are a no brainer if you want to win. If you got any points left after this, get some doggies or furies for flanking/ warmachine hunting.

There you go. This is hands down the only viable build for deamons if you are not allowed to play kairos, if you are allowed to bring him, ALWAYS FCKIN bring kairos. If not, bring a keeper of secrets with siren song, torment blade (+1 A) and soul hunger.

This is THE single best build for deamons, nothing else even comes close.

[HeOfTheRedPen]

I've always found that a Khorne/Tzeentch heavy army worked for me when I used to dabble in Daemons. As mentioned above, big solid cores of Bloodletter are an absolute must- taking two lots of 30 may be excessive for 1500 points, though, so I would recommend you use 32-35 in one huge block (set them up as a horde to get those bonus attacks- your enemies' rank bonus's will mean nothing if you're hitting with 30-odd S5 Ws5 attacks with Killing Blow!). A Herald of Khorne or two would help to beef up this unit; personally, I would go with one mounted on a Bloodcrusher or one with Armour of Khorne, as otherwise they prove a little vulnerable despite their beserk killiness.
Horrors I find work best as meatshields for a Herald of Tzeentch and/or the Changeling. Enemy melee characters HATE the latter, whereas the first is a good buy just to add solid magical support- take him with Master of Sorcery (I think that's what it's called... I can never remember!) so as to give him access to the Lore of Life, which is beastly in any army. The unit of Horrors itself should be fairly large, at least 20+ models. Smaller units die way too easily, so avoid using them.
So, with those pointers in mind, we've got a Herald of Khorne, a Herald of Tzeentch, Bloodletters and Horrors in the army. What else should we bring along? Plaguebearers, Daemonettes and Furies are a huge no-no for competitive lists, so we'll gloss over them completely. As for special units, Daemons suffer badly in that department as well, with Screamers, Nurglings and Seekers being next to useless even in the most competent general's hands and Flesh Hounds being too small in number in 1500pt games to do any real damage. Let's skip that section too, then! Rare units get a little better: it's good sound advice to select big units of Flamers, these being the best Rare choices Daemons can feasibly offer, but don't overlook Bloodcrushers in bigger games and Fiends for their utility as disruption units and war machine hunters. Because 1500pts is a bit too small to select a good 8-strong unit of Bloodcrushers (one of my personal favourite choices in larger battles, by the by- the mess it makes when accompanied by a Herald has to be seen to be believed...), I would suggest mainly Flamers with perhaps one or two Fiends to round the army off. Try to use the Flamers to weaken enemy units about to tangle with the Bloodletters and use the Fiends as fast-moving machine maulers to take out those distant gunlines.
There we are! I hope this helps, and that I haven't repeated the same information as given before. And Squirtopus, your strategy certainly ISN'T the only viable choice for Daemons, but I'll agree with you on Kairos- he is so damn good!
Yours,
HeOfTheRedPen

[HalfBlood]

If you want to win with deamons its really easy:

After I saw this I hit my head on my desk, and then skipped the rest of his post.



Yes I dont like horrors personally, however I feel Daemonettes work better with magic then Bloodletters, yet Bloodletters are more resistant to uber kill spells.

[daa6]

Personaly I would mix A and B. If you like and want Skulltaker, then do so but list one loose the smaller unit of Letter and buy a naked Khorne Herald to pump the unit and take out base to base models, while Skulltaker deals with challenges or more threatening base to base models and but the rest into the other unit, and/or Horros. you could split the fiends into units of one for crew hunting... and then add another flamer, or tweek the list so you have two units of three each....

If you are wanting to keep Skulltaker this is.....

[squirtopus]

@ halfblood

I wasn't in any way stating that winning with daemons is easy since that would be wrong. They are far from the top tier army they were in 7th and anyone denying that is out of his mind. I was merely stating that if you wan't to play them competitive there are only very few choices left because 80% of our roster sucks. But if you dislike my opinion feel free to prove me wrong.

[manickze]

Thanks for the feedback, glad someone was able to read this lol

Here is my new list:

Herald of Tzeentch (General)
-Master of Sorcery
--Lore of Life
-Spell Breaker

+24 Horrors (5x5)
-full command

Herald of Khorne
-Battle Standard Bearer
--Banner of Sundering
-Armor of Khorne

+35 Bloodletters (6x6)
-full command
-Icon of Endless War

5 Flamers

5 Flamers

This is similar to my 1.5k list. I'd cut down the letters a bit and get a couple of single unit Fiends of slaanesh. They are killy and very versatile. Never leave home without them. Also Icon of sorcery is a must on horrors.