2500pts competitive Tzeentch army

[scubasteve04]

Fantasy Army: WoC

Trying to make my list as competitive as possible while trying to avoid Chosenstar and Marauder hordes. Thoughts?

Lords
Choas Lord. MoT, Disc, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Helm, Great Weapon, Bloodcurdling Roar- 362pts

Heroes
Sorcerer, Level 2 MoT, Disc, Infernal Puppet, Charmed Shield, Biting Blade, Dragonbane Gem, Third Eye of Tzeentch- 235pts

Core
24 Warriors, MoT, Shields, FC, Razor Standard- 479pts <--- BSB here 5x5
18 Warriors, MoT, Halberds, Shields, Musician, Flaming Banner- 354pts
5 Warhounds- 30pts
5 Warhounds- 30pts
5 Warhounds- 30pts

Special
12 Knights, MoT, Musician, Blasted Standard- 570pts

Rare
Hellcannon- 205pts
Hellcannon- 205pts

[Rosstifer]

Any reason for avoiding Chosen and Marauders? What environment do you play in?

[scubasteve04]

Because the next new book is WoC, and Marauders/Chosen star is going to get nerfed. I already had to sell off my Empire army before the book came out because of all the nerfs, I don't want to do it again. Plus I hate the marauder models.

[bigbear bailey]

I doubt it will get "nerfed". I can see some diffrent things going down, but regardless chosen will kill a lot and maraurders will be cheap and killy (while dieing a lot). None of that has changed at all in any of their books.

[thesheriff]

The idea that marauders and chsoen will get nerfed so horrifically that they wont be playable is something that will never happen. Firstly, beacuse your chsoen could just be used as warriors, and they will always be usable. Secondly, Marauders would have to be seriously nerfed to be unusuable. Considering for 4 pts marauder can have 1 S5, WS4 attack, they are pretty overpowerd now. Worst case senario, they lose the ability to take GW's (but i guarentee they wont lose the ability to take flails, flails are traditional Marauder atire afterall!) and they will go up in points (perhaps to 6-base - AT MOST)

Needless to say, I wouldn't worry.

But, your chocie is your choice, and I will respect that. The list;

Trying to make my list as competitive as possible while trying to avoid Chosenstar and Marauder hordes. Thoughts?

Lords
Chaos Lord. MoT, Disc, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Helm, Great Weapon, Bloodcurdling Roar- 362pts
Ahh, the ever so underrated unkillable Chaos Lord. Up there w/ unkillable dreadlord in my opinion. I alwasy prefer stream of corruption myself rather than blood-crudling roar. But, he looks good apart than that.

Heroes
Sorcerer, Level 2 MoT, Disc, Infernal Puppet, Charmed Shield, Biting Blade, Dragonbane Gem, Third Eye of Tzeentch- 235pts
Decent Build. Im always pretty adamant of including a Sorcerer on foot w/ Puppet, and sticking the disc rider w/ Spell familiar, Third eye, blood-Curdling Roar, Talismain of Endurance. But, the points are scarce, and I dont know what id drop. 2 Knights and 4 warriors should cover it

Core
24 Warriors, MoT, Shields, FC, Razor Standard- 479pts <--- BSB here 5x5
No BSB?? And Id drop these guys down to 20. Having the extra rank is a bit pointless, with no annoying IP charecter to guard, they wont be the main enemy target (Discs, halberds and knights are all more deadly IMO)

18 Warriors, MoT, Halberds, Shields, Musician, Flaming Banner- 354pts
Personally rather have the frenzy banner on them, with tzeentch magic, you shouldnt have too much trouble w/ regen.

5 Warhounds- 30pt
5 Warhounds- 30pts
5 Warhounds- 30pts
Less than 100pts of chaff? Perfek!

Special
12 Knights, MoT, Musician, Blasted Standard- 570pts
Personally drop them down to ten for afformentioned charecter alterations....

Rare
Hellcannon- 205pts
Hellcannon- 205pts
Bit of a paradox that your alowing dual-cannon but not allowing Chosen or marauders. Suppose its the partial and not total removal of temptation for beard

thesheriff

[scubasteve04]

New version. Dropped chaos lord because I played 4 games and he died early every time trying to tarpit units. Need better leadership and a reroll, fear and break tests are killing me.

Lords
Chaos Lord, MoT, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Anti-Heroes- 300pts

Heroes
Exalted Hero, BSB, MoT, Disc, Sword of Might, Talisman of Endurance, Shield, Bloodcurdling Roar- 240pts
Sorcerer, Level 2 MoT, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Ironcurse Icon, Third Eye of Tzeentch- 230pts

Core
23 Warriors, MoT, Shields, Musician, Banner of Discipline- 421pts <--- Lord here
18 Warriors, MoT, Halberds, Shields, Musician, Flaming Banner- 354pts
5 Warhounds- 30pts
5 Warhounds- 30pts

Special
10 Knights, MoT, Musician, Banner of Rage- 485pts

Rare
Hellcannon- 205pts
Hellcannon- 205pts

[GodlessM]

Because the next new book is WoC, and Marauders/Chosen star is going to get nerfed. I already had to sell off my Empire army before the book came out because of all the nerfs, I don't want to do it again. Plus I hate the marauder models.

I guess coming to a forum for tactical advise was a bad choice then, if this is the type of thing that is the true influence of your army. Aside from the fact that you are speaking in speculations only above, important question; is this list for now or for in 6mths time? Because if your choices are going to be all about a book we know nothing about, then maybe you should just wait for that book then. Would Chosen losing their broken crutch status mean you would 'have to' (I had when people use that phrase) sell your army? No, especially if you make your Chosen out of Warriors, in which case they still would have a use even in the unlikely case that Chosen because useless beyond belief. Same with the Marauders; will underpriced troops becoming balanced (I would expect 6pts per model) force you to sell? No. On another note, Level 4 wizards will still be a necessity in a competitive list come the new book, so what's the reasoning there?

[scubasteve04]

I guess coming to a forum for tactical advise was a bad choice then, if this is the type of thing that is the true influence of your army. Aside from the fact that you are speaking in speculations only above, important question; is this list for now or for in 6mths time? Because if your choices are going to be all about a book we know nothing about, then maybe you should just wait for that book then. Would Chosen losing their broken crutch status mean you would 'have to' (I had when people use that phrase) sell your army? No, especially if you make your Chosen out of Warriors, in which case they still would have a use even in the unlikely case that Chosen because useless beyond belief. Same with the Marauders; will underpriced troops becoming balanced (I would expect 6pts per model) force you to sell? No. On another note, Level 4 wizards will still be a necessity in a competitive list come the new book, so what's the reasoning there?

I can understand chosen, because being able to use them as warriors makes them versatile from a model standpoint. I guess I just favor Knights over chosen overall.

As for Marauders, I am not touching them with a 10 foot pole. The models are god awful, and considering what happened to the Empire State troops, I expect the nerf hammer to come down hard on these guys. Not even going to bother. Had to sell my Empire army because I took the top choices, and when the new book came out EVERY SINGLE model I had in my 2500pt army was nerfed in some form or another. I want to be able to keep this army for more then 6 months, and not have to worry about selling and jumping ship before the new army book hits shelves.

[Rosstifer]

So your willing to invest in 2 Hellcannons that will almost certainly be changed in the new book? They are pretty expensive models. Also, what have you been throwing the Chaos Lord on Disk in to? I've used him in 14 games so far, 6 of which where Tournament games, and He's died in 2, and both of those I sent him in knowing full well he would probably die.

[Sh4d0w]

So your willing to invest in 2 Hellcannons that will almost certainly be changed in the new book? They are pretty expensive models. Also, what have you been throwing the Chaos Lord on Disk in to? I've used him in 14 games so far, 6 of which where Tournament games, and He's died in 2, and both of those I sent him in knowing full well he would probably die.

Why will hellcannons be changed? IMO as far as internet wisdom goes they are the dirtiest thing on the block but from real play testing they aren't too bad, they are good yes but i don't think they will be changed much.

[Morax]

I can understand chosen, because being able to use them as warriors makes them versatile from a model standpoint. I guess I just favor Knights over chosen overall.

As for Marauders, I am not touching them with a 10 foot pole. The models are god awful, and considering what happened to the Empire State troops, I expect the nerf hammer to come down hard on these guys. Not even going to bother. Had to sell my Empire army because I took the top choices, and when the new book came out EVERY SINGLE model I had in my 2500pt army was nerfed in some form or another. I want to be able to keep this army for more then 6 months, and not have to worry about selling and jumping ship before the new army book hits shelves.

On that note, lets take a look see at your list:

Lords
Chaos Lord, MoT, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Anti-Heroes- 300pts
Pretty safe from the nerf hammer. Chaos Lords have always been amongst the hardest to kill and the hardest hitting, not likely to change.
Heroes
Exalted Hero, BSB, MoT, Disc, Sword of Might, Talisman of Endurance, Shield, Bloodcurdling Roar- 240pts
Somewhat safe. Taking a look at VC, which usually has combat characters on par with WoC, he should keep much of his hitting power. The problem will come with the change to the Mark of Tzeench that is inevitable, he will be back to being a t4 2w model with less then stellar saves. Not sure you are going to want one then.

Sorcerer, Level 2 MoT, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Ironcurse Icon, Third Eye of Tzeentch- 230pts
Going to be nerfed. Chaos casters work the way they do currently due to the abilities and items you select. Expect many of the abused ones; Third Eye, Puppet, Roar, Stream, Phylactery, Spell Familiar, to either just go away or go up in points cost similar to the big names of the ogres.

Core
23 Warriors, MoT, Shields, Musician, Banner of Discipline- 421pts <--- Lord here
Magic Banner, safe. Command, safe. MoT making them a uber nasty hammer, gonna get nerfed. Either it's gonna go way up in points for a unit or it's just gonna get changed and slamed with the nerf hammer. You may want to avoid painting them in the colors of Tzeentch.

18 Warriors, MoT, Halberds, Shields, Musician, Flaming Banner- 354pts
Some could make a case for warriors to get a choice of choose one equipment upgrade or choose as many as you like. Either way I wouldn't sit to pretty with halberds and shi

5 Warhounds- 30pts
5 Warhounds- 30pts
I personally would expect them to go up in points. The amount of players taking units of 5 hounds as chaff is too prevalent for GW not to try to get you to buy something else. May be a small change like going from 6-7 points a model but that would make taking 3 such units dangerous.
Special
10 Knights, MoT, Musician, Banner of Rage- 485pts
Expect this banner to disapear. Books are showing up with 2-3 banners, one high points cost, the others mid to low. With the amount of other iconic magical items in the WoC army I wouldn't expect this to make the cut.

Rare
Hellcannon- 205pts
Hellcannon- 205pts
Expect the Nerf hammer to fall hard here. Instant panic tests, high strength, monsterous creature stats, -1 to leadership tests. Yeah it's getting nerfed and everyone knows it. Either expect to pay a lot more points for it or expect it to lose a lot.

All in all, in 6 months your list, either due to direct rule changes to elements used or increased points cost, will function completely differently. Such is the way of all things gamesworkshop. Added to this, if you are keen to play the best of the best of units, you are going to have to spend money upon release. With every new army book, the best point for point model in it has been clear and it has been new. From mangler squigs to mornfangs, the best unit and the one often spammed has been something new and something with a high dollar price tag, WoC will likely not be different. I suggest planning for it ahead of time and making the nessasary preperations.