Onslaught 2012 Reports (Orcs and Goblins)

[Walls]

They aren't mutually exclusive.

Your list isn't frustrating because it wins easy or loses easy. It's frustrating because it's basically a 1.5 phase army. Foot of Gork and combat. Even movement is basically a non factor in an army like that.

You can have fun AND have a competitive list no problem. Hell, I think my Ogre list was fairly competitive. I was quite high in the rankings, massacred two armies, won another game and narrowly lost the other. But I and all my opponents had fun in every game. You can definitely go in with the attitude that you are going to play hard and win every game, but you don't need to play with attitude. You can still have fun, talk about the hobby, compliment the fella on his army. You never HAVE to take Foot if it just autowins you games. Take another spell instead. I don't think it's your army that's the problem, it's mindset. Winning and fun can happen at the same time. I tabled a guy in three turns and he gave me the vote for his favorite opponent because I was gracious in winning, offered to play him again even to waste time. Your foot of gork game was no fun for you because you cast a spell hoping it would smash a few units, knowing it does. Not trying to be offensive, but it\'s really Operator Error.

Basically, it's not the list that wins and loses games. It's the player. It's not the list that makes games fun or not. It's the player. Play your lists and just change the mindset behind them. Go to win tourneys, but beat their army, not them. Don't feel like you NEED to destroy everyone because it turns personal when you don't or do.

Look at your army and why it's boring. The above case? One phase and one spell army. Add other elements to your army so you are always playing in every phase.
Look at the specifics of your game and why it sucked. Foot beat everything and won the game. Don't always take Foot. You got obliterated in combat? Add a couple redirectors and chaff to pick fights instead of just assuming your giant blocks win every fight.
Look at your mindset. Why are fun and being really competitive not allowed to be inclusive?

[Shimmergloom]

I think he needs the black orcs, since they are dependable. But maybe I have a soft spot for them now that I spent so much time painting and re-painting mine.

He could drop the squigs maybe. Or really the super expensive savage lord. It looks like it disappointed him a lot with it's rolls.

[Malorian]

Walls, that sounds all well and good, but I think we both know that games can be won or lost in the list building phase.

I can take a strong list and make it lose, and it will be more fun for the opponent, but I'd rather take a weaker list and still get to try my best so we both have fun.

[Walls]

I actually totally disagree with list building be win/loss. If so, why bother playing if you see a list stronger then yours?

You still need to be able to play with skill to win, no matter the list, especially in a tournament setting.

And with that in mind, if you do think list building can win or lose you a game, perhaps your list wasn't nearly as strong as you thought? You took a "weaker" list in your last battle report and smashed the guy.

[Malorian]

I actually totally disagree with list building be win/loss. If so, why bother playing if you see a list stronger then yours?

You still need to be able to play with skill to win, no matter the list, especially in a tournament setting.

And with that in mind, if you do think list building can win or lose you a game, perhaps your list wasn't nearly as strong as you thought? You took a "weaker" list in your last battle report and smashed the guy.

Obviously skill plays a part and obviously luck plays a part.

In every game the winner is going to be decided by several factors: army list, skill, mission, terrain, and luck. Out of all of those things only your skill and list do you have control of in a tournament.

Of course an optimized list can lose to a very poor list depending on the other factors, however you can't tell me that if you take two people with equal skill, and playing a mission and table that favors them equally, that the person with the stronger list doesn't stand a better chance of winning.

In fact I can prove that you are being hypocritical because you yourself are running heavy list comp at the tournament you are running: http://www.ultimate-gamer.net/forum/...p?topic=1929.0 http://couleecarnage.blogspot.ca/

If you truly believed that skill prevails over the list then such comp wouldn't be needed.

So lets stop pretending and face facts.

[Walls]

Still disagree. Mostly because I never said list building doesn't matter at all. It does, but not to the factor people think.

Our tournament, a huge fundraiser for the MS Society of Canada, is based on the UK comp system used at South Coast GT. It definitely limits what you can take, moreso to make the games a bit more fun and competitive for everyone. You have to remember, in the UK at these tournaments, we are talking about some of the best players in the world. We think guys here are good. These dudes play ALL THE TIME at a very high level. So skill is all super high, hence the comp to make it more balanced between them.

Skill always prevails over the list but when you got equally skilled players the list definitely matters. But at the same time, comp is also used to make games more entertaining for both sides, making people engage and play. You won't have Dark Elf players throwing 34 dice at Mindrazor, won't have 20 warmachines, won't have giant unstoppable blocks of 100 bloodletters, etc (exaggeration meant).

Don't take things personal. Just trying to help you figure out your conundrum.

[Malorian]

I think we both know that games can be won or lost in the list building phase.

when you got equally skilled players the list definitely matters.

I'm glad we came to an agreement.

[TsukeFox]

You know if people do not want to get mushed by das Foot of Gork- they should take some MR, for as the 8th edition books come out more army Lores will not have "and die" results but wounds. Just sad that GW after pumping out those magic cards, before real game testing, will never errata the dooms day spells like the power scroll was erratad (thank the dice gods.)

[GodlessM]

Just sad that GW after pumping out those magic cards, before real game testing, will never errata the dooms day spells like the power scroll was erratad (thank the dice gods.)

Sorry for going off topic but do you want to explain how you know these things for a fact?

[TsukeFox]

Sorry for going off topic but do you want to explain how you know these things for a fact?

Hm they spent a fair amount on printing out the magic cards- why go back & correct any of them? One rewrite in the BRB is okay, but a reproduction/recall of a product that is working more or less? Seems unlikely.

I hope for it utterly myself.

[Malorian]

Yeah... that's what I thought when I bought the 40k vehicle damage dice...

[TsukeFox]

Yeah... that's what I thought when I bought the 40k vehicle damage dice...

Not up to date on my 40k history- what happen with the vehicle damage dice?

[Malorian]

In the previous edition there was a separate table for glancing hits, penetrating hits, and penetrating hits done with ordinance weapons on vehicles.

Remembering the tables was a pain so they came up with nifty dice that had symbols on them to show you what effect it is (basically putting the table straight onto the dice).

With such dice I thought it would stick and so I picked them up, but when they moved to the next edition they dropped down to a single table that wasn't the same as any of the old ones, thus making all those old dice completely useless.

*cry*

[TsukeFox]

**pat on the back**

Well I am sure the spell cards will be completely useless in 9th

[SevenSins]

finally back in the fantasy section after a looong break, and glad to see some Malorian reppishness going on.

Nice reps as usual, Mal, and talk about fluctuations in the karmic spectrum

(you need to execute every tenth die you own, and let the other dice watch. i recommend blending them. That'll set the rest to high-rolls for a tourney or two at least)