People who call your list cheesy?

[AdaptUK0]

nope. rending is on the to wound / AP roll. If it was on the "to hit", then yes, psycannons would be broken
the psycannon is also Assault 2 and not assault 4. It is heavy 4 though.

I think that BA (or GK) are better than "vanilla" marines in some aspects, but are definitly not strictly better. In fact GK are very very differnt from other marines.

Thanks for the update! I said I was a bit out of touch with the rules!

What I would say is that GK, BA and SW are more forgiving that standard marine lists i.e it's easier for a new player to pick up a list and do well with and rely slightly less on tactics. That said, someone who is tactically minded will be able to do better regardless of units to a certain extent.

[Draconis]

When comparing Stormbricks between chapters, the only major differences are the missiles and how the BA's Skies of Blood explicitly meshes w/ Descent of Angels. Bloodstrikes are pretty big, but nothing to write home about compared to what Mindstrikes can do to certain armies (Tyranids and other Grey Knights).

GK versus BA only favors GK unless the BA player knows what they're doing. GKs are canned victory just add water, but properly-run BAs can pick and choose fights they can win and systematically pick the GK army clean. Not easy, certainly not pretty, and probably involving list tailoring, but possible.

That said, if the OP's opponent played anything non-Imperial, particularly a xeno army, my sympathy for the OP would evaporate rather quickly. I let it slide here because I know BAs. To take BAs and lose as badly to GKs as you claim suggests "bad player" more than "unfortunate choice of army that couldn't really hope to do much better". Though not entirely relevant to the OP's specific scenario, I think he's touching on something far bigger here than just one isolated incident. To put it bluntly, the deal with playing the troll army is that your victories are attributed to playing the troll army. It takes a thick skin to play the troll army, but some players have that gift of not caring what other people think. Others (like myself) don't. Neither are wrong, but it's simply a matter of picking what kind of gamer you are and playing against those of like minds. If it bugs you that your GKs get called cheesy, you can either deal with it, or reconsider your choice of army. For a personal example, I play Blood Angels because I want to be seen as the guy who uses an okay army very well. BAs have the tools to beat everyone, but the frailty and high points cost that could see them beaten by anyone competent. Sometimes I lose, but it's almost always because I could've done something better. Contrast this against my Dark Eldar, where the outcome of my games could be determined far quicker by playing Rock-Paper-Scissors. I don't play Dark Eldar very often anymore.

Im in the same boat. I've had every piece in my Nid army called cheesy. by the same person. Ive had every army Ive ever played complained about. I played the Original GK, the Aegis rule was cheesy. I played original Crons. "All the pieces look the same, all tricks" Well, this isn't chess, I can't help you. Nid army, dont get me started, to many complaints. Chaos Daemons "Deepstriking everywhere? power weapon squads? Invuln saves? Breath of Chaos? 4 wound monsters? Chaos Space Marines. Breath of chaos? Daemon Princes? Yeah, it gets old fast. But I had to give people bad days, so Ive spent thousands of dollars building new armies from scratch. I can't help it I hate to play space marine armies that they are used to. I dont like to take the easy road when it comes to armies. Oh and Tau.... how many complaints have I heard about JSJ and railguns...

[scapegoatboy69]

Honestly... GK is kind of a cheesy codex. It's pretty easy to cram the tools to excel in any situation into any given unit.

It's possible that the BA player was not a win at all costs type. Taking rapey lists and playing in a cutthroat or too exacting manner isn't a good way to keep fun players in your gaming group.

In the OP's example, it was a rock vs scissors match-up. That Blood Angels list relied heavily on feel no pain and striking at initiative 5 in order to get **** done. I6 Force Weapons gave him an insurmountable advantage over the Blood Angels player. It was a waste of the BA player's time to unpack his mandollies and put them on the table.

OP, would you get frustrated if you came into a situation where there was no chance of victory? Would you possibly call the opponent cheesy in that circumstance?


EDIT: I don't mean to say that OP's list is perfect or without weaknesses or anything-- you've got a hard time dealing with av 14 and hordes for instance. It's just possible that it's far beyond this one BA player's ability.

[hazmiter]

Grey knights get smashed at range though.
Vondicators are a example.

[weirdmaster]

A BA player calling another army cheesy? Never thought I'd see the day.

Bizarre BA list though. Pretty sure he had no idea how to use the army too well. Although it is possible to run Five Chalices, if you have 2 HQ units and get 2 honour guard units as a Sanguinary Novitate is part of the HG.

To be honest GK scared the crud outta me when I glanced through their stuff, but after reading several articles on other websites, I think if I can keep my army more than 30 inches away from the GK, and whittle them down with long range fire and or/or AP3 and lower weapons, then I should be okay.

An interesting match up, I think, would be a Triarch stalker and a Dreadknight.

[rocdocta]

well i think any GK player will just have to accept that the rest of the gaming community see their army as cheesy and a training wheels one. Plus boring as in a tourney at least 30% of the players take GKs. There is enough hate out there so i wont rehash why everyone thinks it.

[Dreadlordpaul]

The reason i take the halberds is because there are quite a few slaanesh daemon players in my area and i got sick of constantly striking last.

[scapegoatboy69]

The reason i take the halberds is because there are quite a few slaanesh daemon players in my area and i got sick of constantly striking last.

No worries man. Figured I'd clarify: I'm not trying to put a value judgement out there. Your Grey Knights army is nifty, different from the norm, and likely a well-modeled & arty pile of dudesmen. It's as valid an army choice as Tau, 'Nids, or Eldar.

The fact that you had the right wargear for the job isn't any kind of problem or bad thing. It's just more-or-less the perfect tool to frustrate this particular BA player using this particular list. This was suggested elsewhere on this forum and it feels like potentially useful advice: bring both a silly list and a more competitive list. Then, ask whoever ya end up playing if they're looking for a fun game or a competitive game.

[hazmiter]

Fun game is coteaz and henchies galore.

[xxRavenxx]

he had a raven and dread along with 5 naked priests

Firstly, I have never hung about with 5 naked priests. This is slanderous.


Secondly, what you say to the guy is this: Nothing.

You're playing a powerful faction, you'll get people calling them cheesy (and possibly for good reason) but there is nothing more to be said or done. Let it wash over you, and get on with your games. Remember the addage: If you argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level, and best you at it.