Fighting Mindshackle Scarabs

[Spring heeled Jack]

1. How did they pop the rhino the marines were in?

2. If they popped the plague marine rhino with the night scythe there would be 5 plague marines left. 15 shots, 9 hits, 4.5 wounds, 2.2 wounded after cover from the rhino or crater, 1.1 dead after feel no pain.

3. Then I charge you with the 4 plague marines, making sure all the MSS lords are touched by a plague marine. Then on the sides of the unit I bring in a couple of demon princes and a couple of units of berzerkers with power fist champs. The fist champs stay in the back and just lend supporting attacks to the melee, so you are only going to MSS 4 plague marines, who cares, they can't even hurt themselves, and a chance at 2 berzerkers. Then you are taking 10 S6 monstrous attacks, 64 str 5 berzerker attacks, however many plague marines don't hit themselves attacks, and 8 str 9 powerfist attacks. Good luck!

Wow, your upset.
1. Easy its armor 11. Second The scenario didnt say they were in a rhino so deal.
2. My mathhammer was swayed to account for a level of fun rather than pure math. If were going math yours is straight flawed. Heres the load out. 15 shots create 10 hits with BS 4, which makes 5 straight wounds because 50% of 10 is 5 not 4.5. If your going to change the math do the math right. You cant expect to have cover when you want it and not when you dont. So 1 dead after cover and feel no pain. IF your going to be like that.
3. You charge with the 4 plague marines, and "YOU" dont get to decide where I put my lords, I do since its a mixed unit and they are not all going to be deployed straight in the front and i get to consolidate into CC. So My MSS hit two of your Plague marines, making sure to hit the one with a powerfist since noone takes plague marines without. He fails since the average on 3d6 is 12 as does the other marine touched. So You charge with Two deamon princes who make Base to Base and I still get to shuffle around to make sure were all stuck in, so ive got on MSS on each. They each fail again because of HARD math, but to be fair one succeeds or I dont manage to get both MSS covering my flanks. Im nice like that . However Deamon Princes dont have grenades so they go last in initiative since were in cover. Two whole units of Berserkers trying to make it into the CC when im surrounded by two MC's and a unit of 4 plague Marines? Now thats way too out there...maybe one unit. Ill give you that. But at least one MSS touches a unit taking out 4 of your attacks and delivering more punishment to your guys.

So now math time, 8 Berzerkers throw out 32 normal attacks, In which 16 hit, in Which 8 wound, 2.4 or 2 rounded to the nearest (the way math works) fall. The MSS delivers 2 hits on your Berzerkers, both wounds since its S5 to T4 but youve got the best odds to not be killed since your sv is a 3+. so 1 dies after the math. Its closest to 1 after rounding.

Now the Plague marines deliver 4 attacks on the Lychguard / Lord unit. And 2 hit and 1 wounds which is saved. However 4 hits come from the MSS and 1.5 wound. so either way its a toss up. Lets go with 2 for fun. 1 armour saves the other feel no pains it, no one dies. But if one of those plague marines had a powerfist and they almost always do, then the math would go like this. 4 hits 2 from a powerfist. 3 wounds, 2 from a powerfist. 1 armour save if unlucky then saved from feel no pain. but 2 casualties do to powerfist.

Now in initiative order its the Necrons. 9 Lychguard and 4 Lords. 6 lych guard attack the MC's 2 on the berzerkers, and 1 on the plague marines, 1 Lord against the 1 of the Mc's, 2 on the Plague marines, and 1 on the berzerkers.

Plague marines result. 2 from the lych guard result in 1 hit and 1 wound from a S7 power attack, 1 marine dies. The 2 Lords throw out 4 attacks and 2 hit and 1 wounds, the wound is saved from a combo of armour and or feel no pain. end of Combat, 1 or 3 plague marines removed depending on powerfist and no casualties caused. (Overall)

Berzerkers result. 4 attacks from the Lych guard makes 2 hits and 2 wounds, from power weapons so 2 removed. Lord delivers 2 attacks 1 hits and 1 wound from which its saved. Berzerker with power fist retaliates with 4 attacks hitting with 2 wounding 2 and two necrons go down. End of combat 3 berzerkers and 4 necron fall (overall)

Monstrous creatures result. The MSS that worked doesnt do anything but cease his attacks wince hes not in a unit. so only 1 Lychguard that inst touched by 1 or more different units has to attack, attacks the MC. with 2 attacks, 1 hit and 1 wound, and 5+ invulnerable is unlikely so doesnt work, MC takes a wound.
Monstrous creature that can attack but moved thru Difficult terrain and doesnt have grenades has to wait for I 1 before attacking. So 5 Lychguard and one Lord attacks. Lychguard send out 10 attacks, 5 hit, 4 wounds, 1 save from the invunerable. Lord attacks with 2 attacks , 1 hit. 1 wound. Deamon lord saves. Deamon lord retaliates with 5 attacks which 3 hits and 2 wound, 2 necrons fall. Demon lord 2 Necron 3 (Overall)

End of combat, Plague marines must take 1 or 3 extra saves for loosing combat.
Berzerkers win by 1.
Both MC's have to save against another wound.
Six necrons fall of which 3 get back up. 6 Marines fall, none get back up, and 4 wounds delivered to the Mc's
Round two will utilize the MSS again and each of your units will lose attacks due to not charging but the Necrons will yield the same number of attacks. If you cant win with the advantage, how do you expect to win when we are on even ground?

[Tethylis]

If you cant win with the advantage, how do you expect to win when we are on even ground?

I'd claim an automatic win due to your unit composition, 10 lychguard & 5 lords is in no way a codex legal unit.

Only one member of the royal court can join each unit in this manner

[Kevlar]

3. You charge with the 4 plague marines, and "YOU" dont get to decide where I put my lords, I do since its a mixed unit and they are not all going to be deployed straight in the front and i get to consolidate into CC.

I guess you never heard of lash of slaanesh. I most certainly do get to position your models any way I like within 4d6 inches of where they start. I can spread them out, bunch them up, conga line them so that any ICs are more than 8 inches away and out of supporting attack range. And with no gloom prism riding on your night scythe you can't do anything about it.

[Spring heeled Jack]

I guess you never heard of lash of slaanesh. I most certainly do get to position your models any way I like within 4d6 inches of where they start. I can spread them out, bunch them up, conga line them so that any ICs are more than 8 inches away and out of supporting attack range. And with no gloom prism riding on your night scythe you can't do anything about it.

Apparently you didnt read the Errata. LOLz

[Reivax26]

Just lash them together and drop a vindicator shot on them. See how they like that...

[Infidel]

The 5 lord unit is rather impractical, but if it's fielded inside a Ghost Ark - an open-topped AV13 skimmer with living metal, in all liklihood with cover because it'd be hovering behind another ghost ark with targets of lesser priority and then in all probablitliy, protected by nightfight - then all talks about psychic power, assaulting in specific ways and such is moot until you get them out of there.

Don't you find it interesting that when you're arguing for rhino/razorback, suddenly AV11 is a BIG deal and open-topped AV13 is for some reason as flimsy as papier-mache?

[RugbySkin]

God... I kinda want to run a 5 MSS Lords/ 5 Cryptek/ 1 OL with orb squad now....

<Whipes Drool Away> Anyhoo, the only thing that can handle this is hoardes of cheapo, expendable troops. The only other idea I could give would be to pop it's transport early and just avoid the bloody squad. Over 1/3 of his points in one squad means the rest of his army can't be that intimidating. Hammy/ SS Termies Would be a bad idea, Dreadnaughts are a bad idea... Seems shooting them down would be the best idea a 10 man squad max army like Marines could handle. See if you have any psychic powers that can diminish their advantages and do what you can to boost the effectiveness of the guns.

Good luck to you...

[DJ3]

Just to clarify:

The Necron lords 5, Are paling around with Lychguard, in a Night scyth

Wow, your upset.

2. My mathhammer was swayed to account for a level of fun rather than pure math.

Apparently you didnt read the Errata. LOLz

I'm rather certain this fellow is trolling you. I'd stop putting so much thought into your responses to him and, preferably, just not respond in the first place.

[Spiney Norman]

Again, I appreciate the questioning of my competence as a player. -_- However, like I said before, all of my models failed tests and couldn't attack. Repeatedly. For three turns, in fact.

Since Jaws can't target units in transports or in combat it isn't a plausible solution.

While I havent fielded the Mindshackle court, I do make use of the odd Lord or overlord using Mindshackles and it seems to me you were the victim of some pretty terrible luck. MSS are great, but theyre not 100% reliable, it is possible to pass a 3D6 Ld test you know

There is no way your entire squad should have been out of action 3 turns running, that is absurdly unlucky rolling on your part. While the odds are not great, they're not impossible, you should pass approx 25% of MSS tests with Ld 8, so out of a unit of 4 one of your thunder wolves should have been able to chew crunchie metal each turn. Consistently failing all your tests for 3 turns running is either shocking luck or considerable exaggeration.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't allow one game where you had bad rolls make you despair of life.

The other perspective is that thunder wolves were the most broken unit in 40k before the GK codex hit, surely having a hard counter for them in one of the games 15 armies isn't a terrible state of affairs...

[Infidel]

I think people are making a bigger deal than necessary on the matter of MSS. It's nice and when it works it works great, but as stated, you can most definately pass a LD test on 3D6, even if the odds are low. For the most part, it's a deterrant.

Similarily, Psychotroke grenades, it is possible to not get a result that gimps yourself over, but how willing are you to fight a CC unit equipped with Psychtroke just because you MIGHT not get too adversely effected?

While having an entire unit of MSS lords is a silly idea, a squad of 5 warriors with 2 MSS scythe lords is a force to be reckoned with. It scores, it has ablative wounds (that can be regenerated) and still hits like a brickhouse in combat.

[edward3h]

I faced an army using this unit last week. It was new to me so I wasn't best prepared with how to deal with it, so this thread is helpful.

Having said that, the army I faced also had 2 Solar Pulses, and we were playing Dawn of War, so he made the first 3 turns of the game Night-fighting. This meant that I would have had a lot of trouble trying to shoot down his Ghost Ark before it got close to me.