Army Builder Tyranny?

[Chapters Unwritten]

First and foremost, I'm intending this to be strictly a discussion of viable technological alternatives, so the obvious suggestion to not use a computer is not going to amount to much)

So. I am a "computer guy"...as such, I am constantly reworking/updating my technology situation, and use multiple machines all the time. I have also been a faithful customer of Army Builder's for several years now. And just recently I once again had to migrate my license as I acquired a new machine, and once again I had to go download Army Builder, once again with an expired license. The latest version is 3.3, and I re-purchased a fresh license at 3.2, so I did not expect to have much trouble; download 3.2, put in my codes, get on with my life.

Nope. The 3.2 download is gone. Forcing me to buy the program all over again for an update I do not want, while meanwhile the good folks at ab40k.org do all the work and likely don't see a dime of the money.

Flustered, I made my way to the 3.1 download. 3.1 installs, I put in my license, hunky-dory. Then I go to download the update for ab40k's module - manually, of course, because my license is outdated - and I find that for some time now the format has been made such that it will not function with version 3.1.

So this is it. The draconian licensing scheme of Army Builder has fed me up to the point of surrender. I have decided, after being forced to pay for the product more than 5 times over the years due to licensing snafus, that I am finished with it. This product, if it is going to be a yearly subscription fee, should be far less expensive, and moreover, I should not be forced against my will to have to update the product, nor conned by the app (as it often lets you download an update to the latest version but then installs as a trial and renders all of your old datafiles unusable).

I understand piracy is a concern but this product's licensing model is hugely restrictive. Even once you own the product you can only put it on two machines, and if you so happen to need to change what machine one of those licenses is used on, you are only allowed to do it once every four months. Microsoft is not allowed to make a version of Windows that no longer installs iTunes. It's monopolistic. Honda is not allowed to make a car that only works with one other company's gas. So why is Army Builder able to force me to update my program by rendering its old version obsolete at will? Why have I paid so much money to them over the years, when it is the diligent work of the people at ab40k.org that has made the product worth a damn? I would be much happier if I were paying the group that actually makes the updates we want, the codex updates, but I'm not. I run a gaming group with a large membership base and there isn't even any way I can get a bulk license for the group, like with other software.

So I have decided to not only not use this product, but to promote alternatives. First and foremost, I will point out to everyone that their old version, v2, has been diligently updated by various people and is able to be hacked. So do with that info what you will, fellow Warseers. I will also be doing my damnedest to create a virtual machine, which can be distributed to/accessed remotely by all of my club members, that uses one singular license paid for by the group.

Has anyone else had too many bad experiences to support this product financially any longer or am I in the minority?

[gunmnky]

I've been toying with the idea of writing a free-to-use, all-inclusive army builder/tracker to distribute to the public, just because I believe it should either be buy once or sold through GW with free army update codes in every codex/rulebook.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

[stroller]

I've never seen any real advantage in using Army Builder. Shout me down if you will, but I've found excel to do everything I need to do. I dare say the OpenOffice equivalent would do the same for free. Yes, I know you have to set it up, but I never found army builder that eassy to instal, or to use, so I stopped years ago. Maybe different now, maybe not...

[Chapters Unwritten]

I am very interested in the idea of creating some sort of alternative, if only for the fact that I am deeply bothered by the idea of the ab40k guys getting no cut of the money. Now, I do not know if that is true, and I can only assume it is.

The first person who creates something of this sort usable on an iPhone is going to make a killing.

I am not much of a programmer but it seems to me that it is easy enough to create something to make army lists, as long as it doesn't actually do 40k-specific stuff. To be frank, if I ever did create such a thing I would rather ask GW to buy it from me and sell it than try to sell it myself. They make the game, after all.

I could create an elaborate Excel spreadsheet that does a list for my army, but I am not really talking about me. I represent a group and many of us have had countless horror stories with AB's administrative rules and regulations. The jump from 3.1 to 3.2 was especially horrid, as they sent out an email to tons of us happy, paid-up customers saying we'd have to re-buy the program to pay for several years of updates that they literally just didn't do. So I've full-on bought the program at least twice.

I don't know. Enough is enough. People use this product because there is no fair and viable alternative. I am tired of this being the case.

[gunmnky]

I am very interested in the idea of creating some sort of alternative, if only for the fact that I am deeply bothered by the idea of the ab40k guys getting no cut of the money. Now, I do not know if that is true, and I can only assume it is.

The first person who creates something of this sort usable on an iPhone is going to make a killing.

I am not much of a programmer but it seems to me that it is easy enough to create something to make army lists, as long as it doesn't actually do 40k-specific stuff. To be frank, if I ever did create such a thing I would rather ask GW to buy it from me and sell it than try to sell it myself. They make the game, after all.

I could create an elaborate Excel spreadsheet that does a list for my army, but I am not really talking about me. I represent a group and many of us have had countless horror stories with AB's administrative rules and regulations. The jump from 3.1 to 3.2 was especially horrid, as they sent out an email to tons of us happy, paid-up customers saying we'd have to re-buy the program to pay for several years of updates that they literally just didn't do. So I've full-on bought the program at least twice.

I don't know. Enough is enough. People use this product because there is no fair and viable alternative. I am tired of this being the case.

Games Workshop makes it very clear and states in no uncertain terms that nobody else can make money off of their IP, not even by advertising. This is why AB is developed separately from the army files that are distributed freely. But an app/web based solution that's free would put AB out of business over night. No installs, no licensing, everything is just right there and ready to use.

[BigbyWolf]

I've never seen any real advantage in using Army Builder. Shout me down if you will, but I've found excel to do everything I need to do. I dare say the OpenOffice equivalent would do the same for free. Yes, I know you have to set it up, but I never found army builder that eassy to instal, or to use, so I stopped years ago. Maybe different now, maybe not...

I'm the same, only without the Excel...what's wrong with a pen & paper?

[red_zebra_ve]

Been a Mac user from day one, I use Excel for all my wargaming needs. I have a BIG spreadsheet with all the options for each my GW armies/miniature collection. It is a pain to change when a new army book comes around, but that is just once in a while (dark eldars!).
Excel lost some lustre when it lost Visual Basic Macros on MacOs, but it still works for me.

[Draconis]

Its not the ability to type up your army that makes AB so nice. Its the idea that everything is only a mouse click away. I want to give this unit a special weapon? done. add the points up for me please.

To the OP, I agree, their licensing is atrocious, however, have you tried to contact them to see if they would offer a way for you to prove your purchase, and then download the license to your new machine?

[Chapters Unwritten]

I have been in contact with them for various things of this nature many times. The fact is, just about every third time, the answer is that I have to pay more money. The most recent time, they even guided me to a "Purchase an additional secondary license" option, which did not do what I wanted to do (it added a third license, equally as expired as my original two...and their people pointed me to this option, literally robbing me of my $10 for a useless additional license).

I should not have to enter into a chain of emails and phone calls proving my identity and asking for help to use a product I have legally paid for. I don't have to call Microsoft every time I reinstall Windows; why does it seem I have to call Wolf Lair every time I reinstall Army Builder?

[Fithos]

When I was a Sophomore in college I made my own army builder for programming practice. It only handled IG and that was the last edition codex. When the new one came out I had been out of programming for just long enough that it seemed easier to just use excel and paper than to actually update it considering I don't get to play nearly as many games as I would like anymore and my list doesn't change very much even if I did.

It actually isn't to hard to make your own though. It is fairly simplistic programming, just very time consuming to create objects for all the different list choices and war gear and rules and any other information you feel the need to include.

[Mr Ogre]

I use Pen and Paper V1.0.

Or occasionally Word. And I get on just fine. :P

[Chapters Unwritten]

I am aware there are more basic alternatives, but none of them have the efficiency of an army building program. Why GW themselves do not create one, I can't fathom (I am aware of their old terri-bad one).

I am considering programming one myself, as was already mentioned the programming is pretty basic. If done right, it could be set up so that instead of having the entries programmed as part of the software, they could be entered into it.

[the1stpip]

In all honesty, I stopped using Army Builder after the last time they made all the datafiles obsolete, and I get a more organic feel from having a piece of paper and a pen.

[Dwane Diblie]

So I take it none of you have heard of Battle Scribe. It has a Windows verson and an Android version. It is free but the Android one has adds and pay to remove adds. Again, just like army builder, you have to DL the 40k files seperatly.

Enjoy.

[riotknight]

So I take it none of you have heard of Battle Scribe. It has a Windows verson and an Android version. It is free but the Android one has adds and pay to remove adds. Again, just like army builder, you have to DL the 40k files seperatly.

Enjoy.

I love this app. It's also available on Android. I use it all the time.. Still a little buggy but overall great.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 2

[Toadius80]

Battle scribe is pretty poor, misses out on many of the options etc.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[TheDoctor]

Pen and Paper is awesome. In fact, I've been getting back in the habit of not using a calculator when I write up my lists. I mean, sure, you have to keep re-purchasing the paper, but that's about it.

For "official" things, I put it on Word.

[Chapters Unwritten]

While it is effective if you are a capable player, again, in my original post I remarked that I am more interested in other modern alternatives rather than going completely against the grain.

[Leeman Russ]

Android users might also like to try Army Creator Mobile - https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ycreatormobile - I got the paid for version and haven't looked back - the interface is a tad clunky to begin with until you get used to it, but it's really useful for making lists on the fly when I'm at work and should be doing other, more productive things!

The only downside to it is that it doesn't have any validation to it in terms of FO charts or certain restrictions on 'unlocks' for units (ie: make Wracks troops with a Haemonculus or take 1 Command Squad per Space Marine Captain etc)

[Hendarion]

Learn German, use Onlinecodex.de (or download the source and translate it for yourself)