Army Builder Tyranny?

[Vipoid]

I have a question for those of you who use Excel:

Out of interest, do you actually make a spreadsheet that can calculate points (essentially a simplified army-builder), or do you just write down stuff in the same manner as those working with pen and paper?

(This isn't meant as any sort of criticism- I'm just curious)


With regard to other programs, has anyone heard of Army Bodger?

It's quite useful for some races (up to and including tyranids, I believe). The bad news is that it seems to have officially died, so don't expect any of the new races to be forthcoming. Still, it's quite a simply interface if you play Tyranids (or one of the other supported races), and the races are all in wordpad, so anyone with the time could probably create some of the newer codices themselves.


In terms of what I use, Army Bodger for Tyranids, Microsoft Word for Necrons. Actually, this is one thing I'll say for army builder (and similar programs) - they're very useful when you want to mess around with your army. It's not *that* difficult to change options/wargear on Word or using pen & paper, but it's a lot easier to just check/uncheck a box, and immediatly see your new point total.

As an aside, one thing I occasionally try, for a bit of fun, is creating an army list mentally (as in, I'm not allowed to use a calculator, check a codex or write anything down until I'm finished). But then... perhaps I just have a very strange concept of 'fun'.

[Robbie_1984]

Hey Guys

I've been tempted to get AB recently, and after reading all this I'm glad I didn't, as I certainly would not want to buy a new license every time they decide to make a change.

I've been looking at battlescribe, and am wondering if anyone else here uses it for 40k, and if so, where is the best place to find data files?

I ask as I looked on their site, and apparently GW got a bit annoyed at them for hosting 40k failes and they arent permitted to host them anymore.

Thanks

[Chapters Unwritten]

I've used Battlescribe and from what I see of it, it is a fine tool if you know your book well enough to double check things. I only checked it for Space Wolves.

The address to use is http://www.randomhit.org/battlescribe_data/index.xml

I've never heard of Army Bodger. **begins to Google**

[andrewm9]

I'm not sure why people are complaining about army builder. Data files for every army are free and you only pay a little over a dollar month for licensing. I have a 3 year license update I paid for that was like 32 dollars about a year ago. Its now 37.50 US for a 3 year update to my 3 licenses. You get 2 licenses for 2 different computers at the start when you buy and can buy a 3rd for like 10 dollars.

People act like paying for a quality product is abhorrent. I just don't understand why. How many of you play MMO's where you pay 15+ dollars a month for their rather indiscriminate updates. So for less than 40 dollars I can continue to use armybuilder for like 13 different games for 3 years. How much of a hardship is it really?

[Konovalev]

How much of a hardship is it really?

MMO's and AB are 2 very different things. In an MMO you are paying not just for the content and updates, but also for the ability to play the game with others. AB is a utility program, not the entertainment in and of itself.

I could pay someone to paint my models for me, or I could do it myself. That's AB. Warhammer Age of Reckoning (RIP) on the other hand, I cannot play (either by myself, or with friends/strangers) unless I pay.

[Robbie_1984]

I've used Battlescribe and from what I see of it, it is a fine tool if you know your book well enough to double check things. I only checked it for Space Wolves.

The address to use is http://www.randomhit.org/battlescribe_data/index.xml

I've never heard of Army Bodger. **begins to Google**

How do you download from that link? It just displays a lot of info, but no links for me

[Kaltenberg]

Ohh please.
I have tried out the AB trail version. Horrible.
Aften using onlinecodex.de for a while nothing really compares.
adding/removing options on the fly- check
posting easy to read list - check
easy to use - check
validating your lists - check.
free - check.

only downside is perhaps that you will have to use google translate a few times until you understand that onlinecodex.de is build up exatly like you codex.

[TheDoctor]

Ohh please.
I have tried out the AB trail version. Horrible.
Aften using onlinecodex.de for a while nothing really compares.
adding/removing options on the fly- check
posting easy to read list - check
easy to use - check
validating your lists - check.
free - check.

only downside is perhaps that you will have to use google translate a few times until you understand that onlinecodex.de is build up exatly like you codex.

Danke schon! I've been looking for ways to improve my German, and one of the ways has been to translate stuff like Dawn of War 2 into German. I've been looking for something like a German Army builder (or even better, a way to get a German codex over here in the US).

[Fithos]

People act like paying for a quality product is abhorrent. I just don't understand why. How many of you play MMO's where you pay 15+ dollars a month for their rather indiscriminate updates. So for less than 40 dollars I can continue to use armybuilder for like 13 different games for 3 years. How much of a hardship is it really?

I know it's not an MMO per say, but as far as role playing goes, Dungeons and Dragons have a really good character builder that you pay a yearly subscription for, is continuously updated, and can be accessed from any computer as all the information is stored on the website instead of having to install it on your computer. I really like it. If GW had something similar (or AB were similar) I don't think anyone would have a problem.

Of course I don't use that either anymore, but when I did I thought it was great. I just don't play nearly enough D&D anymore to justify it.

@ Vipoid: When I use excel I set it up to auto calculate, but lately I have just been using notepad and doing most of it in my head before I write it down as I seem to have a similar definition of fun to you.

[shadekiller]

@vipoid: My excel SUM the points cost and give me some cool (yeah easy to set up XD) percentage like how much core do I have for fantasy etc... I also added cool top and bottom borders I took in each codex, I did a version that had every options entered in a list and then with a set of VB codes it gave points cost an all but its was quite long to do for all my armies... (I have 6 ). it's free and simpler to enter your full collection of minis and a couple of different unit set up and then just paste them in your army sheet to be worth it :P

[PatrikW]

I have to agree with people here saying that onlinecodex.de is a great tool with the unfortunate problem that it is in German, works fine for me but my gaming buddies complained for a while so you might have to do a quick translation before printing.

Battlescribe also works great in my opinion, easy to use, my only problem being that the output ain't clean enough for me, i want it as minimalistic as possible. (someone said it cant export to bbcode but it can)

It is now many years since I last tried army builder and I suspect it has had massive changes since, but back then the output was horrible cluttered.

[Vipoid]

@vipoid: My excel SUM the points cost and give me some cool (yeah easy to set up XD) percentage like how much core do I have for fantasy etc... I also added cool top and bottom borders I took in each codex, I did a version that had every options entered in a list and then with a set of VB codes it gave points cost an all but its was quite long to do for all my armies... (I have 6 ).

Heh, yeah, it does sound a little time-consuming.

I asked because I remember making a somewhat primative army-builder on Excel for the old Necron codex, for one of my IT projects. I just wondered if anyone had had a similar idea.

Ohh please.
I have tried out the AB trail version. Horrible.
Aften using onlinecodex.de for a while nothing really compares.
adding/removing options on the fly- check
posting easy to read list - check
easy to use - check
validating your lists - check.
free - check.

only downside is perhaps that you will have to use google translate a few times until you understand that onlinecodex.de is build up exatly like you codex.

Hmm, just downloaded this, and it's actually very good (aside from the small problem of being in German ). To be honest though, I think there's something quite entertaining about presenting an army list that's written entirely in German.

[orkmiester]

I have a question for those of you who use Excel:

Out of interest, do you actually make a spreadsheet that can calculate points (essentially a simplified army-builder), or do you just write down stuff in the same manner as those working with pen and paper?

(This isn't meant as any sort of criticism- I'm just curious)

in my humble efforts, it calcualtes the points, and gives you amount you have left etc.

though i haven't used it in a bit as i prefer Mk1 pencil, paper and a calculator as that lends itself to having a beverage handy (for moments of inspiration).

i perfectly understand those who like to use the more 'modern' methods, i just find using a mix of both suits me better

[Chapters Unwritten]

I could pay someone to paint my models for me, or I could do it myself. That's AB. Warhammer Age of Reckoning (RIP) on the other hand, I cannot play (either by myself, or with friends/strangers) unless I pay.

The licensing setup for AB is more like paying someone to paint your models, and then having to pay them once a year for every year you used those models.

I pay for the software, AB is the software. The "updates" don't come from AB and the people providing them do not get the money. The real kick in the balls is that the people who make the datafiles probably have to pay for it as well, so they can get access to the SDK.

If anyone is interested, I have succeeded in my efforts to make a distributable copy of AB and am currently distributing it among my club members. And for those misunderstanding that I just don't want to pay for the program...joke's on you. I paid the full price yet again in order to create the virtual version out of my own license.

[Vipoid]

I have to say, this is the same reason I don't play subscription-games like WoW.

If I pay for something, I want to own it, not rent it.

[Clarkson]

The licensing setup for AB is more like paying someone to paint your models, and then having to pay them once a year for every year you used those models.

I pay for the software, AB is the software. The "updates" don't come from AB and the people providing them do not get the money. The real kick in the balls is that the people who make the datafiles probably have to pay for it as well, so they can get access to the SDK.

If anyone is interested, I have succeeded in my efforts to make a distributable copy of AB and am currently distributing it among my club members. And for those misunderstanding that I just don't want to pay for the program...joke's on you. I paid the full price yet again in order to create the virtual version out of my own license.

are you offering for free?

[Chapters Unwritten]

I do not want to distribute this to the outside world because it has my license attached to it. If anyone is interested, however, I will tell anyone who wishes how I did it. Other than the cost of one AB license, the process was entirely free and is confirmed to work on multiple computers with one license.

[bobafett_h]

I have been using Army Builder for about 10 years now and am yet to find something that works as well. There are plenty of other alternatives available, but I'm yet to find one that looks as nice, is as quick to use and offers as many options. Having said that though, Lone Wolf's licensing system for AB 3 is annoying and it would make a world of difference if it was simpler.

For some time now, I have not had AB 3 activated on my main desktop computer simply because I know that I will upgrade the hardware and do a clean install of the OS. Because of that, I have resorted to using AB 2 and the current 40K data files for it which are quite good, but miss some of the options available in AB 3. However, my second license is permanently installed on my laptop which I still use when I am doing a list that the AB 2 files don't handle.

My license was purchased duing version 3.1 and so can not be used with 3.3, but 3.2 still works great for me. Despite the fact that it no longer receives automatic updates, it doesn't take that long to go to the ab40k.org site and download and import the files manually. Certainly worth the effort to save me having to buy a new license just for the updates.

There are various Excel spreadsheets on the Internet you can download for all of the different armies, but none of them offer the same validation, missing option/unit reminders and ability to quickly view unit stats and rules summaries like AB. Even BattleScribe which is more in depth than what spreadsheets can do is still way too early in it's development to compete with the real advantages that Army Builder has over everything else...

[REDEATH]

Damn I have never seen so many damn AB haters. AB is Awesome! You guys are just too damn cheap to buy it and like its been said the program updates are like years apart so it not like you are spending tons of money on licensing my license expired for a while now but the program still works fine the only downside is I have to go directly to AB40K website to get the WH40K updated files which is not really a big deal for what I get in return so far I have yet to see a damn Excel army list or a Pen and Pencil guy come up with as good a list with out mistakes. Also AB is great if you don't have tons of money and have like 6 different armies. You can't memorize all the damn codexes and rules for their characters and armies but at least with AB you get the summary of all the weapons and abilities so you don't have to guess or take someone else's word for it. AB rocks if you are not using it then most of you probably fall into the categories of being too cheap or too L33T. And no one can say they cant afford it because look at how much you already pay for all these models.

[bobafett_h]

How do you download from that link? It just displays a lot of info, but no links for me

You need to install BattleScribe, then run it. When you first start it up, a box should pop up asking you for a data repository URL. The xml links are the URL for the data files for each game system. Once that is added and updates checked, you can simply go to New Roster and you can pick your race. This system works a little easier in regards to updates than AB, but from my understanding it is trickier if you want to use custom/alternate files for things like unofficial rules/units or even just older versions of the files...

I still prefer the layout of AB (more so with version 3). Not only does it look nicer, but I just find it easier to find the units I want. It also lists unit stats and wargear options in a way that looks like it is straight from the Codex. There are a lot of options for how the list will look when printed/saved as PDF/HTML/TXT so you can pretty much make it look however you want too as well as a button that you can tick which automatically sets it to a tournamnet style output...

Personally I usually go for a single page list showing the unit points costs, number of models, stats, and list of wargear options. Then because I have a printer that can duplex I include the options/wargear/rules rummary on the other side. I rarely ever need to check my codex when I forget things during a game because it's all on one piece of paper...