why would you ever use a vanquisher cannon?

[cptsoban]

I keep thinking I'm misreading the rules but a vanquisher on a leman russ doesn't make any sense to me.

Same range adn strength as a regular battle cannon. It's AP2 instead of AP3 but no template! It says it gets and extra D6 for armour penetration but doesnt all ordanance roll 2d6 for armour pen?

[Formerly Wu]

Ordnance rolls 2d6, then takes the highest. The Vanquisher cannon adds them together.

That said, a one-shot BS3 gun on an expensive platform isn't a great deal anyway, so the question still stands.

[agurus1]

only take a vanquisher in an armoured company list, where you can stick it on a BS4 Command Tank, with a co-axial heavy stubber for re-rolls under 36"

or just take Pask in a Codex IG list lol

honestly whenever I HAVE used one, I haven't regretted it, I just find two bare bones LRBT w/ Lascannon to be so much more "all comers"

[Lothlanathorian]

Also, the blast only does full damage to the tank when if the center is over part of the hull, so, you have the same chances of actually hitting, only, with the Vanquisher, you might actually have a better chance of killing a vehicle.

[Jericho]

I think most people would tell you that there are better tank hunters in the IG list than any of the options discussed here (mass melta, lots of multilasers for light tanks, Vendettas for triple lascannons, etc.).

The point remains though, 2d6 added together is a lot nicer than 2d6 pick the highest when cracking tanks. Whether it's worth limiting the versatility of the tank that much is up to you

[xxRavenxx]

The obvious answer to why you'd use one:

Because its cool.


If you're more concerned over rules, or prefer a different gun, the vanquisher isn't for you.

[Bunnahabhain]

For fluff, and because it looks right.

Under the current codex rules, there is no point to it whatsoever. The FW lists do it much better.

Frankly, if it going to remain AT only, it should be something like S10, AP1, ordnance, with a generic option for BS4 as a command/veteran tank at a sane price.
If it could have a split profile, something like.... S6 Ap4 ordnance, blast or S8 Ap1, 2d6 pen.

[scopedog91]

Why?
Because some of the locals here play a 3 Falcon, 2 Waveserpent setup.
That, and it just looks cool.
Pask is fun for the "he adds what to the damage?" look on people's faces...

[agurus1]

lol Pask + Vanquisher w/ lascannon is fun

every so often you will just have some of those priceless long range shots, like when my Vanquisher popped Abaddon's Land Raider ride from inside a building across the board. priceless. add camo-netting for additional lol's

[ehlijen]

The Vanquisher isn't the nasty tank hunter. It's the tough tank hunter. There are a lot of ways to kill tanks better, even at range (Vendettas, Medusas, Manticores), but none of them are AV14.

The Vanquisher is what you send out to hunt hammerheads because everything else is more vulnerable to vehicle railguns. If that's not a niche you need filled in your list, don't take it. But it's not worthless; it is one of the cheapest russes for a reason though.

[Getz]

It used to be awesome, now it's just meh. In my experience Vanquishers work well enough, but there are better ways of killing armour.

That said, ehlijen's point about it being tough is well made. If you're facing a lot of firepower that's looking to kill your own anti-tank (another Guard army perhaps, or shooty Marines or Tau) then having a good, long ranged anti-tank gun behind AV 14 is nothing to be sniffed at.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

There's some real gaps in efficiency in the various Leman Russ designs. The basic Leman Russ has almost the firepower of a Basilisk for +25 points. Okay, I would totally pay 25 points for the chassis. The Exterminator has almost the firepower of a hydra, for +75 points. Huh? The Vanquisher is paying a premium more like the Exterminator by most reasonable estimates (albeit rather more difficult to estimate!). If it simply had AP1, it would be much more reasonable, IMO, as it could be compared to devildogs and medusae. Right now it's more like a Vendetta that's had one set of lascannons blown off, or maybe a lascannon HWT. So, about 105 points, while the Vanquisher with a lascannon upgrade (seriously it should just come with that) puts the premium too high for my taste.

[agurus1]

my thing is that I always saw vanquishers as the rarest of LRBT varients (as Imperial Armour 1 confirms) and always thought it would be reserved for command or veteran crews (ie: BS 4). Honestly if there was a IG vehicle upgrade to make a tank BS 4 it would be so much better (like how Tau have). Call it Veteran Crew or something.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

I believe the upgrade is called "Pask".

[MajorWesJanson]

Vanquishers are best used against heavier armored targets with Pask. BS4, and 2D6 pen means an average roll is 15, so enough to pen heavy armor. Meltas do more damage, but have to get closer, Manticores can scatter the hole off the target, and Las cannon vendettas do better against most armor, but the few that are 14 on sides and back, are less likely to pen.


It's a situational tank though, so doesn't show up much.

[FashaTheDog]

Because you bought the below turret on an impulse and it will be a sane day in the Eye of Terror before you don't use it.

[LegioDestructor]

Because its cool. If you're more concerned over rules, or prefer a different gun, the vanquisher isn't for you.

QFT!

As several have mentioned, it's s8+2D6 with AV14. What they haven't mentioned is range. Having an anti-tank weapon is one thing, being able to use it effectively as an anti-tank weapon is another. Powerfists and Melta is fine, but you risk danger just getting into range with them. A bad Deep Strike roll or an Immobilized transport means that unit you tooled-up to punch armour isn't even going to make it there. Counterattacks and vehicle explosions have also claimed many close-ranged AT units.

Lascannons are great, and they are fairly ubiquitous in any Imperial force. But there are many other weapons with high-Strength and a 48" range, which means when you can hit them, they can hit you. A Bs3 Vanquisher Cannon may mean you're only hitting about half the time, but each hit is made without fear of retributive firepower coming from a Predator, Fire Prism, or Hammerhead. Stand-off is an underplayed consideration. Of course, if you're always playing on 4'x4' tables, then range is all but meaningless. Tankers aren't meant for point-blank firefights.

Interestingly the Tank Hunter, the only vehicle similar to a Vanquisher in role, is 5pts more than a bare-bones Vanq. The Laser Destroyer is s10, but it's also the only weapon the vehicle has. So the Vanquisher may be pricey, but you're paying for versatility and a much greater battlefield capability.

[greenmtvince]

It used to be awesome, now it's just meh.

This.

Back in the 3rd Edition Codex or 4th Edition Imperial Armour I seem to recall the AT round being optional, meaning you could fire a normal battle cannon round to clear out infantry OR fire an AT round to pop tanks. As a bonus, the AT round was ordnance so you could roll on the Ordnance Pen chart (the three seperate charts should never have gone away) giving a pen a 50/50 shot at a Vehicle Destroyed result.

No idea why this tank got the nerf bat, but they made the Valkyrie OTT in the 5th Edition codex. It was a longtime favorite for me.

Edit: I have some ideas why, but none of them have to do with game balance and fun.

[Konovalev]

Because you bought the below turret on an impulse and it will be a sane day in the Eye of Terror before you don't use it.

Exactly this! Better still when forgeworld loses your order and ships you another one, only to have the original eventually arrive as well.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

But there are many other weapons with high-Strength and a 48" range, which means when you can hit them, they can hit you. A Bs3 Vanquisher Cannon may mean you're only hitting about half the time, but each hit is made without fear of retributive firepower coming from a Predator, Fire Prism, or Hammerhead. Stand-off is an underplayed consideration. Of course, if you're always playing on 4'x4' tables, then range is all but meaningless.

What kind of tables are you playing on? 6x4 is standard and renders virtually all ranges above 48" nearly irrelevant (though IMO that's a LOT different from claiming that "range is all but meaningless"). Certainly you're not going to meaningfully outrange fireprisms or hammerheads.