Wound allocation - I just don't get it.. Help!

[Nurgling Chieftain]

What makes more sense would be that wounds should be allocated and assigned based on initative value.

They, um, are.

[Rated_lexxx]

I get how it works, but I don't like the rule.

If you take more normal wounds on top of wounds that not allows saves, you get an an increased chance to survive with more guys.
(if you have a good armour save, like 2+ or 3+)
Stacking the most powerful wounds on the same guy is just too far from reality. Why would all four lascannons in a Devastator squad aim at the same guy (flamerguy, designated dier),
and the bolterguys rapid fire the rest?

Well that's a discussion for another thread, thanks for the help!

I believe GW has said that if a space marine with a heavy plasma died why wouldn't someone else in the group pick it up. Anyway there are a lot of abstracts in the game because there has to be. After all it is a game

[FashaTheDog]

Just to be facetious, and really is there no other reason to be, you can always solve this problem by only ever using power weapons. Blood Angels with only Sanguinary Guard and power weapon armed Honor Guard (maybe a few Sanguinary Priests if you want to break the all gold theme), Grey Knights, power weapon armed Wolf Guard lists (terminator armor optional), Deathwing, and pure Khorne Daemon armies spring to mind. For shooting just be sure to stock up on AP1 and 2 weapons; Dark Eldar can easily win games with little or no splinter weapon fire with the right list as can certain Armored Battlegroup list (eight Leman Russ in 1,500 points is an easy way). If you need to fire weapons that provide saves, bunch them together so that's all that's being fired at a single target.

There, wound allocation shenanigans are a thing of the past !

[don_mondo]

What makes more sense would be that wounds should be allocated and assigned based on initative value.

A character with I6 and a power weapon would wound and kill X models before anyone else strikes. These should be taken off when the wounds are sucessful
Any models sharing initiative can resolve those hits as described above - wound allocation of mixed p.weapons and standard weapons.

We should assume that say a DE succubus leaps into combat and kills 3 terminators w/3 power weapon attacks before they can strike back, 3 should die. With wych attacks, wounds can be allocated with the mix of pw and standard wounds, with single models taking multiple pw wounds. Casualties taken off

Power fists then strike last for the remainder

Oddly enough, that is how it works in hth.............................. Wound allocation at each initiative phase.

[Chapters Unwritten]

Just to be facetious, and really is there no other reason to be, you can always solve this problem by only ever using power weapons. Blood Angels with only Sanguinary Guard and power weapon armed Honor Guard (maybe a few Sanguinary Priests if you want to break the all gold theme), Grey Knights, power weapon armed Wolf Guard lists (terminator armor optional), Deathwing, and pure Khorne Daemon armies spring to mind. For shooting just be sure to stock up on AP1 and 2 weapons; Dark Eldar can easily win games with little or no splinter weapon fire with the right list as can certain Armored Battlegroup list (eight Leman Russ in 1,500 points is an easy way). If you need to fire weapons that provide saves, bunch them together so that's all that's being fired at a single target.

There, wound allocation shenanigans are a thing of the past !

You cannot hold back attacks in close combat. Read the rules.

[FashaTheDog]

You cannot hold back attacks in close combat. Read the rules.

Never said to hold back attacks in close combat, I said only use power weapons and gave examples of armies that can have universal power weapons.

[rickyard]

I don't remember when i started the thread, but i suggested long ago to use RANDOM allocation. Easy, quickly and CAN'T BE MORE FAIR to everyone. And of course, it is reallistic, as when a unit fires to another unit, you shoot at THE FIRST enemy you see, just don't wait to the sergeant (if you are a snipper perhaps) or the special weapon guy, simply shooto in the direction where they are. So randomness (dude, you won the lottery) is more suitable, realistic, fair and EASY.

[Rated_lexxx]

I don't remember when i started the thread, but i suggested long ago to use RANDOM allocation. Easy, quickly and CAN'T BE MORE FAIR to everyone. And of course, it is reallistic, as when a unit fires to another unit, you shoot at THE FIRST enemy you see, just don't wait to the sergeant (if you are a snipper perhaps) or the special weapon guy, simply shooto in the direction where they are. So randomness (dude, you won the lottery) is more suitable, realistic, fair and EASY.

I guess that be easy for small units but I guess I will have to fin a 30 sided dic for my ork boyz

[Tethylis]

They are not that hard to find, any good gamer should have at least one in their dice bag.
Seriously though random allocation would be the best way to stop specialist troopers always being either the last man standing or the guy riddled with a squads worth of plasma holes.

[rickyard]

I guess that be easy for small units but I guess I will have to fin a 30 sided dic for my ork boyz

The same 30 dices I throw when i order my Imperial Guard unit to fire their lasers.

And with random and just some common sense it is even better, you can say:

On a 1-3 the injuries go to THAT HALF of the unit (that 15 models, that include the flamer) and with a 4-6 the other half.

Now i only got 15 models to random, and so on.

[MyNameDidntFit]

There are enough useless dice rolls in 40k as it is. If I had to roll for random wounding when I fire 120 lasgun shots from my FSF!SRF!'d 40-man blob... well, I think I'd sell my 40k and buy more fantasy.

[rickyard]

There are enough useless dice rolls in 40k as it is. If I had to roll for random wounding when I fire 120 lasgun shots from my FSF!SRF!'d 40-man blob... well, I think I'd sell my 40k and buy more fantasy.

And so, when you use that 120 lasers, you don't use 120 dices? And then, you don't throw about 60 impacts to see if they wound? And then, your about 20 hits, doesn't your opponent throw 20 "saving" dices?

And so, when he has 10 wounds to allocate, the problem is to randomly throw 2 or 3 dices to see who is wounded?

So, after 200 dices thrown, in your extreme example, the problem is throwing two or three more??

[MyNameDidntFit]

And so, when you use that 120 lasers, you don't use 120 dices? And then, you don't throw about 60 impacts to see if they wound? And then, your about 20 hits, doesn't your opponent throw 20 "saving" dices?

And so, when he has 10 wounds to allocate, the problem is to randomly throw 2 or 3 dices to see who is wounded?

So, after 200 dices thrown, in your extreme example, the problem is throwing two or three more??

No, that's not my issue. To Hit rolls are needed. To Wound rolls are needed. Save rolls are needed. Wound Allocation rolls... are not.

My problem with randomising is that you're now adding a fourth phase of dice rolling that is changing very little and certainly cannot be described as "needed". You allocate wounds to the 15 guys in your example, you're still going to have wound allocation shenanigans going on--you want to split the squad evenly, that means half the wounds on half the R&F and on half of the spec. guys... so all you're doing is splitting the shenanigans into two parts. In no way, shape or form, does this mitigate the shenanigans to any level worth the extra phase of rolling.

The wound allocation rules as they stand are perfectly fine and need no tampering.

[CaptainGallas]

I don't remember when i started the thread, but i suggested long ago to use RANDOM allocation. Easy, quickly and CAN'T BE MORE FAIR to everyone. And of course, it is reallistic, as when a unit fires to another unit, you shoot at THE FIRST enemy you see, just don't wait to the sergeant (if you are a snipper perhaps) or the special weapon guy, simply shooto in the direction where they are. So randomness (dude, you won the lottery) is more suitable, realistic, fair and EASY.

Never heard of that before, but I like it!
(Someone could surely come up with a clever and fast system for it, as it would be a lot of odd numbers to randomize between.)

It's kind of funny right now how they guy with the most powerful weapon always survives longer than the others.
My friend describes his Nob with Powerclaw in a squad of 30 boys as a Powerclaw guy with 30 wounds. Not far from the truth.

[rickyard]

No, that's not my issue. To Hit rolls are needed. To Wound rolls are needed. Save rolls are needed. Wound Allocation rolls... are not.

My problem with randomising is that you're now adding a fourth phase of dice rolling that is changing very little and certainly cannot be described as "needed". You allocate wounds to the 15 guys in your example, you're still going to have wound allocation shenanigans going on--you want to split the squad evenly, that means half the wounds on half the R&F and on half of the spec. guys... so all you're doing is splitting the shenanigans into two parts. In no way, shape or form, does this mitigate the shenanigans to any level worth the extra phase of rolling.

The wound allocation rules as they stand are perfectly fine and need no tampering.

What shenanigan is possible when you RANDOM??¿???? Of course some people put a test to every rule you do, but i wouldn't call a system perfect that allows to do what the OP describes. I really don't know why allocation has changed first to do one thing, next to do other, there are always ways to abuse from them, that's why random could be a way. I am truly against throwing excess dices, but if i had to choose, i'd rather get rid of the unnecessary saving throw (do instead some confronted roll, the attacker "power" roll against the defender "defense" roll, that's all).


If you say "every 1-3 dice goes to that group" and then throw and obtain a 4-6 in three dices, and 1-3 in two more, there's no way to argue:TWO wounds go there and three go there, that's all... after throwing the dice, your oponnent can complain whatever he likes, you both have agree BEFORE rolling wich group receives the wounds, it is easy to understand.

Anyway, if it is extremely complicated, why can we, please, in the name of SIMPLIFICATION just let ONE player do the allocation IN THE WAY he prefers, and that's all????
You don't like the attacking player do the allocation because it would kill every special miniature in a turn?, ok, let the defender do the allocation, but just after having done the saving throw, not a problem, anyway the way things are now, it is easy to let your special miniatures and sergeants be kept safe, so why so many rules???
Just 10 FAILED wounds you need to allocate, you got a 12 man unit, you (defender) let alive the ones you think you need more, that's all. Anyway you can argue that in a particular unit the ones giving the orders tries to keep safe while orders the others, or that a particular corporal takes its place, and that the special weapon can be given to other soldier, that's all, and if you think it is unfair, it is as unfair to one player than to the other. The only practical rule? Place wounds to every miniature until all are dead, if you take 12 wounds and got 10 miniatures, say goodbye to your unit, easy, simple.Mmmm, i thought it was like that on 4th?? Everything keeps changing to overrule every aspect and we then realize that some players are able to abuse everything.

AND random has a side effect that i really love.... let snipers OR independent characters be the only unit that is allowed to CHOOSE a particular model to hit.

[Empirespy]

You know, I have a simple solution, the target unit's player allocates hits before you roll to hit, then you roll to hit, wound and take saves in batches of identical model groups. When allocating hits, you must allocate them evenly in these stages;
1. Ignores armour and ID
2. Ignores Armour
3. ID
4. Weapons with special effects but not in previous stages (ignores cover etc.)
5. Normal shots.
Works well, and it means special weapons guy may not die from being allocated a stage 1 wound, as it still may miss. It also doesn't slow the game down too much, except when you're playing against armies that were made to take advantage of wound allocation (Competitive GK, Chaos chosen/Terminators etc.), but not really too much more, as it's not that often you get a unit firing more than 3 stages. Blast weapons are allocated after they hit, and to the models that are under the template.
Try it, it's quite fun, and removes these shenanigans. (We don't play competitively when we use these rules, so it may be possible to take advantage of it some how, but they are obviously the same people who are doing the same thing now.)

[don_mondo]

I've got an easier solution. Use the rules as written.................................... I'd say we've wandered far aifeld from the question asked to rewriting the rules. Time to lock this sucker down and continue rules change suggestions in the appropriate forum.

[DoctorTom]

I've got an easier solution. Use the rules as written....................................

Brilliant! It's apparently a little too easy for some people though.

[don_mondo]

Brilliant! It's apparently a little too easy for some people though.

True perhaps. But it does make life easier if you travel and/or play in tournaments. Don't have to try to remember what the real rules are compared to silly house rules your group uses....................

[Reivax26]

I think that you should go through and roll out close combat attacks one model at a time against a model that is in base to base with them. So if the Nob with the Powerklaw wants to swing, then he needs to be in the front. Part of the problem I have with close combat now is the 2'' from someone in combat thing. That makes it where everyone in a squad is going to be able to swing even though in reality they would be about 15 feet away from wherever the actual combat is happening.

My 2 cents