Escorts under FAQ2010

[sunnyside]

So I was looking around the board for information on using escorts. It seems everyone thought that they had potential, but that assault boats wiped them out way to easily and so escorts weren't worthwhile.

Well, FAQ2010, which seems to have pretty wide use and certainly tourney use, rules that escorts have a diffferent critical table where 1-3 is nothing and 4-6 is destroyed. Essentially halving the likelyhood an assault boat will kill and escort.

So does that make escorts viable?

If so how would one use them? It seems like using them for classic flanking stuff would just be a good way to let your enemy shoot more of their guns each turn.

And their forward volleys don't seem that impressive that holding them back behind a cruiser line would generally be that good.

[horizon]

Hi,

Escorts have always been viable. They are just a tad trickier to use.

Note that hit&run modifiers still apply versus escorts. So marines kill enemy escorts upon a 2+ (old: 1+) and get killed on a 4+ (old 3+).

Never throw escorts out their on their own.
A lot of it depends on which race you use as well.

But keeping them at the back and use them when the lines engages is a good idea.

Torpedo escorts have a different role then gunnery escorts.

Edit:
Just think about it: what Imperial Cruiser can throw out 20 weapon batteries @ 30cm LFR for 175 pts (5 Swords)?

[sunnyside]

Note that hit&run modifiers still apply versus escorts. So marines kill enemy escorts upon a 2+ (old: 1+) and get killed on a 4+ (old 3+).

Yeah, but they are also fighters, so they have to try and intercept things like torps right? Hurm, actually I wonder if there's a use for escorts right there. If I understand things right, a single fighter will take out any size of torpedo salvo. And cruisers can't choose to fire six salvos of one torpedo instead of one salvo of six.

But falchions could pop off their single torps to clear out fighter type craft left a right. Clearing them off of CAP. Oooh, and with the new turret supression rules, people would want fighters in bomber waves on a routine basis.

But keeping them at the back and use them when the lines engages is a good idea.

Just think about it: what Imperial Cruiser can throw out 20 weapon batteries @ 30cm LFR for 175 pts (5 Swords)?

I guess what I was thinking was that a cruiser in the line could be firing part, starboard, and forward, making for a lot more firepower total.

Maybe a better comparison would be chaos ships where they can put firepower at or above the escorts level out of each facing. To match escorts, they just need to split between forward and either side, which is really easy.

[andrewchristlieb]

Chaos have very little use for escorts, the main exception being the infidels which bring some torps. Most of the other races are pretty spoiled on escorts. Using torp escorts to strip cap is pretty common, they're also great for stripping fighters off bomber/ assault boat waves and taking out other torp salvos (any one torp that encounters any other size torp salvo destroy each other) its often better to use these ships for this purpose exclusively as this affords the escorts a bit more surivability from direct fire. You should really only group them in base to base if your attempting to deny an area with long range torp salvos (pretty common for Imps and Tau) or you can get off a clean attack. Cruisers can throw down an impressive amount of firepower but it's pretty unlikely to fire both broadsides effectively much less both broadsides and the prow.

[horizon]

But but but...!

Once my 3 Iconoclast locked on, pull up in front of an Emperor BB, 3 or 2 shields down, within 15cm Fire, Emperor Fails BFI... Crippled Emperor.
Now they are core to my renegade fleet. har har

[Demoulius]

I thought marines got a 2+ bonus to boarding but only 1 bonus to hit and run? Making them kill escorts on a 3+?

[fracas]

I thought marines got a 2+ bonus to boarding but only 1 bonus to hit and run? Making them kill escorts on a 3+?

against escorts marines need a 3+ for hit and run rather than 4+ as other factions

[horizon]

wooops! excuse me.

[sunnyside]

Although marines force a minus one on hit and run rolls when attacked right? So against most opponents would need a 5+ to down a marine escort with a teleport attack or assault boat etc.

I think nids have some rule like that too.


In regards to general usage do most of you agree that the way to use escorts is NOT to have them try to zip around and attack ships from behind, because that's just a good way to allow your opponent to get to fire out of all three arcs on their next turn.

As with all things there would be exceptions. For example if they're attacking an isolated ship that can't just turn and shoot them for some reason or other, or if your playing a mission where the ships are trying to get somewhere and don't want to have to turn. For reasons like that scenarios probalby make escorts a lot better than they would be in a "pitched battle".

Instead some escorts are of the torpedo type, which are good for countering incoming ordinance, fighters on CAP, and maybe occasionally going after other escorts or risking base to base to hurt a capital ship.

And then you have gun/lance type escorts, that like to hang back with the fleet and then lock on for a big hit on a single target when the fleets meet.

[Demoulius]

against escorts marines need a 3+ for hit and run rather than 4+ as other factions

Oh thank god! For a moment here I was thinking I did it wrongly for a few games

Favorite use of mine is to use escorts to strip shields and preferably some 10 cms away from my opponents front. Sometimes less (but far enough away that they dont strip their own shields ) moving them in such a way that your firing at a closing cruiser and your opponent will be firing at an abeam escort next turn

Even when within 15 cms youd be surpised how few shots they generally will be getting back and with a fast marine fleet just flying behind them they tend to survive

And when faced with brutal firepower (for example if an enemy fails a LD test to see if he can fire at something else) brace them! Escorts can be brutal at taking hits Theyre like spongues, but made of metal

[andrewchristlieb]

Yes escorts are best used in certain scenarios. I keep my escorts behind the line in a straight fight and use the escorts to hit already damaged ships, hence why I like Firestorms for IN (*gasp *shock!). Support ships like the Sword worked best in v1.0 when they could move behind the enemy and swing 90 to hit then with no column shift for blast markers. Torp ships can work well in these situations by using CTNH or AAF to break through the enemy fleet and hit them on their backsides. If you can get them in the enemy's rear arc they're harder to remove than fleas on a dog .

[sunnyside]

For some reason quoting isn't working for me. But I don't see why escorts should be particularily hard to remove while braced nor why they'd be that hard to clear out of an enemy's rear. Not that you aren't right. I'm just curious why that is.

When it comes to being braced, it seems like shields are less of a defense than more hits since you don't get brace saves. You'd expect to need about eighteen hits to clear a standard braced cruiser (two for shields, eight hits saved by brace rolls, eight hits failed by brace rolls) whereas for escorts (assuming five armor 5+ escorts for a similar price to the cruiser) you'd only need fifteen (five on shields, five saved by brace, five failed by brace.) The escorts would have a shift on the gunnary column for being escorts, but on the other hand as you work through the squadron you'd often be shooting at fresh ships without blast markers on their bases. I guess you don't also have to worry about a crit finishing the job prematurely, but the cruiser can probalby shrug off a teleport or assault boat attack.


Regarding the rear arc, it seems like ships would simply be able to turn 45 degrees and waste the escorts barring specific circumstances. Hmmmm I suppose some imperial navy ships with their poor maneuverability and/or short ranged weaponry might have a hard time getting them. But most fleets seem to have enough of either speed or range to put the hurt on.

[sunnyside]

Oh, and does anybody use escorts as ways to mass turrets either while still or while moving (arranging the escorts so the esort or capital ship is touching a couple escort bases at the point in the move when you touch ordinance, and then moving on so you don't have to worry about the blast marker issue.)

It seems like it could be helpful. But maybe escorts are too expensive to be used in this manner.

[horizon]

i. It is harder to hit an enemy escort, thus less dice to roll (from weapon batteries that is).
ii. Do you remove five escorts in your rear, end up with dead five and only gain 25%vps while a guntoting cruiser comes at you?

[sunnyside]

Maybe you didn't write quite what you meant with ii there. I think the point you're trying to make is that escorts just have to have one surviver zip off the table or sail away from enemy ships and over to some blast markers to disengage and deny any further VP for the enemy, whereas a crippled cruiser might just be stuck. And that does seem valid.

Though otherwise a squad of five escorts and a cruiser typically seem to have similar point costs, obviously depending on the specific classes.

[horizon]

Yes, but for 175pts / 5 Swords / I have 20 flexible weapon batteries in one arc. Which cruiser can do that?

[Novrain]

Plus remember BFG is not always about building the most killer fleet!

Escorts are wonderfully fluffy and really drive your games towards cool scenarios and interesting little engagements. I find having a mini game of BFG with just one cruiser and a couple of escorts more fun than slogging through big battles and trying to remember everything. And I play Chaos!

[Demoulius]

A few swords (gladius for my marine fleet) can be a real pain to get rid off

Specialy (as already mentioned) when theyre in the opponents rear arc

Like Horizon said your opponent would indeed need less shots to kill them. But he also is getting significantly less shots at the escorts. Since escorts also dont need to move to make their turn they can end their turn abeam to the enemy ship (return fire will be abeam I mean) in their own turn move 90 degrees and pursue, still getting hit from an abeam aspect whilst their target is still moving away

If it would be a 1 on 1 fight the cruiser is either getting pounded or has to hope for a good turn of lucky shots to get rid of the escorts reliably.

Theyre also worth alot less points compared to cruisers and compared to cruisers pack a considerable punch (the S20 battery Horizon mentioned is a good example )

They provide a fast agile base of firepower that no longer get killed on a 2+ from attack boats

Theyre certainly viable ^^

[sunnyside]

Yes, but for 175pts / 5 Swords / I have 20 flexible weapon batteries in one arc. Which cruiser can do that?

Hmmm well at the standard equivalence of str 2 30cm lances = firepower 6 30cm weapons batteries that would be the slaughter class.

I guess it can't put that much out in its forward arc. So I guess that's what you'd have to utilize.

Ok, so is maybe the use of something like a sword that you'll very likely be able to use lock on, as escort move quite a distance, and can put all their firepower on anything in a 270 degree arc? And then maybe that they can turn and fire at whatever if you can keep them alive through the main fleet crossing?

And then have them get out of dodge before you opponent collects on all those VPs for getting the last one?

[afterimagedan]

I find that escorts, Swords and the space marine gun escorts, have some really good advantages. They are fast, have 270 degree arc, and are 90 degree turning with no minimum move before turning. This makes them able to keep a side to the opponent and maximize the enemy position in shooting. For example, you can make it very hard to the enemy to shoot you the next turn because of your maneuverability and still be able to get in an optimal position to shoot and maybe even lock on.

Escorts are great if used well. If they are used poorly, they can be easy victory points.