Best magic lore for Empire in 8th edition

[Blkc57]

If one was using just blocks of infantry with cavalry support and no other shooting besides a single cannon, what do most consider to be the best Magic lore to synergise with the new 8th edition Empire book? I ask because I'm interested in building an army around a lore but I wanted to see if many people consider one or two lores the most cooperative with the Empire state troop. In the past people were telling me shadow and life were the top line choices, reading the new book they don't seem as useful as most say, but maybe I just don't see how they operate in a pure state troop filled army.

[theshoveller]

Shadow and Life are always handy, but Shadow is less effective if you know you're going to face Skaven regularly. Life needs a level 4 to get the most out of it (i.e. to use Throne of Vines well).

Specific Empire choices though: Light always goes down well. Speed of Light is a good all rounder, Birona's Time Warp against certain armies is devastating. The other spells are reasonably killy in themselves. Beasts is a good choice if you plan around it (remember the lore attribute for use on cavalry, but remember that many spells are short ranged) as it cures state troops of their main weakness - being squishy and lacking killing power. The advantage of Beasts is that you can just keep casting Wyssan's Wildform as long as you have power dice (because all your wizards can theoretically have it).

[Lord Solar Plexus]

I'm heavily in favour of Light, Life, Death, Shadow, Metal, Fire, Beasts, with Heaven a close second.

Really, there is no bad lore. WS10/I10 or Birona's is cool. +2/+4T and regrowth is cool. Character assassination or -3 Ld is excellent. +2AS and various hexes are nifty. Flaming shooting or +1 to hit is the ideal complement for a list low on shooting, and Wyssan's is a lot of fun.

[DivineVisitor]

Im all for Shadow or Light. I have alot of experience with Shadow and a well timed Withering or Enfeebling Foe can be devastating. Though i suspect the AOE Birona's Timewarp or Speed of Light would prove just as nasty.

[danny-d-b]

another vote for shaddow or light- cos both bring a bit of killing power, as well as the buffs to increase our state troops

beasts is a more of a support mage rather than a level 4, but I suppose if you were going down the griff route

[mistrmoon]

I'm a huge proponent of death. Purple sun is amazing, soulblight bight be the best hex in the game, 3 character assassination spells and the lore atribute as well? yes please.

[Askari]

Light and Shadow are my go-to magic lores. Light covers the army's weaknesses, Shadow gives the enemy additional weaknesses.

If I'm bored of them, I like using Metal (Final Transmutation is a seriously underrated spell) and Beasts (try Savage Beast of Horros on a Runefang Grand Master, or a Griffon general). The only lore I haven't used is Heavens, which I may consider with an all-cavalry list.

[Jericho]

Light and Shadow are my go-to magic lores. Light covers the army's weaknesses, Shadow gives the enemy additional weaknesses.

If I'm bored of them, I like using Metal (Final Transmutation is a seriously underrated spell) and Beasts (try Savage Beast of Horros on a Runefang Grand Master, or a Griffon general). The only lore I haven't used is Heavens, which I may consider with an all-cavalry list.

Heavens in an all-cav list is something I forgot to mention. Re-rolling 1's with lances and 1+ saves is suddenly pretty sweet.

[decker_cky]

I just realized that you can put Balthasar Gelt in a unit of demigryph knights and he'll get a look out sir.

[Keetoowah]

I just realized that you can put Balthasar Gelt in a unit of demigryph knights and he'll get a look out sir.

They are on chariot bases

[Jericho]

They are on chariot bases

Actually they're not. They come with 50x75mm bases, not 50x100mm (chariot) bases. I think the 50x75 was first used on the plastic Giant, though I could be wrong on that.

And as for my Life vs. Metal point earlier, I was saying that you can boost armor saves for all units within 12" while Light spells never cast on a radius like that, so Life can steer you towards a deathstar mentality while Metal lets you run a more traditional Empire army with multiple support units. Light can boost spells to cast in a 12" radius as well.

And with regard to Metal only being useful against certain armies, I don't really buy that. With Wood Elves, it's great against Treemen, Ogres have Mournfangs, Chaos/Empire/Dwarfs/Brets are self explanatory, it's pretty decent against many Dark Elf and VC heavy hitters, and the list goes on. Demons and Khemri are probably the armies that care the least about this lore's damage spells. The signature spell is a bit situational, but the only other spell that relies on the enemy armor save is Gehenna's Golden Hounds. Every army has access to 2+ armor now for their characters, and while many characters will be packing a 2++ against flaming attacks, this spell can quickly see the end of any character without it.

Like I said, many of the lores will work well, it just depends on what style of army you want to take. If you plan on hammering a single enemy unit, Shadow or Death can do that. If you want one "unkillable" unit, Life does that. If you want lots of augments for multiple units/characters, Light, Beasts and Metal do that. Heavens isn't overwhelmingly good at any one thing, but it's got a number of handy spells and Fire is what it is, a ******** of S4 damage spells that are fairly easy to cast.

[decker_cky]

They are on chariot bases

As mentioned....they aren't. Regardless, that has nothing to do with look out sir.

[Tuttivillus]

Heavens in an all-cav list is something I forgot to mention. Re-rolling 1's with lances and 1+ saves is suddenly pretty sweet.

Don't forget enemy's reroll on 6's Farewell killing blow!!

I just realized that you can put Balthasar Gelt in a unit of demigryph knights and he'll get a look out sir.

And will grant them some Magic Resistance for some time!

[Askari]

And will grant them some Magic Resistance for some time!

Buy them a command group and he'll be safe in the rear rank!

[decker_cky]

Buy them a command group and he'll be safe in the rear rank!

He has to sit on the side of the unit because he doesn't have a compatible base size.

[Jericho]

You can make a case for all of the main 8 lores, especially when you consider the different ways you can build Empire armies.

Light
Some decent (flaming) damage spells and bonuses vs. Undead/Demons is nice. Some very nice buffs to make your mediocre stats much, much better. I always liked Light quite a bit.

Shadow
Some very nice debuffs to make the enemy troops suck even worse than the average human. Lore attribute can occasionally be handy to reposition characters.

Life
Great for supporting expensive low model count units (Steam Tank, heavy cav, Demigryphs) and can make your infantry last much, much longer. Great lore if you like to go Deathstar + monsters/altar variant support units. Without Loremaster, this lore can screw you sometimes with bad spell selection rolls.

Death
Short ranged but excellent damage spells, character snipe, and a great hex to make enemies easier to squish. As a bonus, you can get lucky and generate some bonus PD to fuel prayers etc. as well.

Metal
Absolutely brilliant against the right opponent. If you are considering taking it, Balthasar is a good bet as he brings Loremaster and +6 to cast. Against some armies this lore is not gonna be a huge benefit, but the area of effect armor save bonus is sweet for infantry spam.

Beasts
Tough to build a strategy around this lore, but Wildform is a great bloody spell and almost makes it worthwhile just to give +1S and +1T to a unit. If you go naked character spam, this lore can be handy as well for buffing their stats via Savage Beast of Horros / Pan's Impenetrable Pelt. Good lore, but one of those ones where you really wish you could pick spells/get Loremaster because not all spells are helpful.

Fire
Not a bad choice if you want a support caster... not a great choice for a L4 tho.

Heavens
Smattering of hexes/augments can be handy for sure. Hard to break a game wide open with a single spell from Heavens, but lots of little buffs to help you out along the way. Comet can help herd the opponent in the direction you want them to go. The buffs/augments are best if you take an elite army where variance in dice rolls can make or break you.

[Spiney Norman]

I just had a brilliant game with the lore of heavens, for some reason the signature always seems to perform loads better than I think it should, and three str 6 damage spells actually makes the lore great at dishing out high level damage on armoured or high toughness units.

I just realized that you can put Balthasar Gelt in a unit of demigryph knights and he'll get a look out sir.

Only if you a fielding your Demi-gryphs in units of 5+, which I would never do because a second rank is such a waste of attacks.

It's worth noting that any wizard (or indeed any other character) mounted on a Pegasus gets the same privilege.

[Sexiest_hero]

Lore of metal rocks. Why waste time with Mournfangs when I can just melt them!

[GodlessM]

Lore of metal rocks. Why waste time with Mournfangs when I can just melt them!

Why waste time with a lore that's only useful against a small handful of armies?

As for the thread, I'm still stuck on Life as it has been making the Stank pretty unkillable, though I really need to push myself to use Light instead as I think it is now a better fit for Empire. We need something to deal with Daemons afterall, and the non-damage spells all synergise well with our troops, be it offensively (Timewarp), defensively (Pha's, Speed), annoyingly (Net), or just for some reliability in a weak area (Light).

[Jericho]

Why waste time with a lore that's only useful against a small handful of armies?

As for the thread, I'm still stuck on Life as it has been making the Stank pretty unkillable, though I really need to push myself to use Light instead as I think it is now a better fit for Empire. We need something to deal with Daemons afterall, and the non-damage spells all synergise well with our troops, be it offensively (Timewarp), defensively (Pha's, Speed), annoyingly (Net), or just for some reliability in a weak area (Light).

Life is indeed super handy for healing Stanks, Popemobiles and Wizardmobiles. Keeping your troops alive is almost a bonus at that point

Seriously though, Metal does have fairly universal spells in that they have a "nuke" #6 spell and some decent hex/augments. The damage spells are a bit situational, as many folks take the Dragonbane Gem/Dragonhelm, but Metal really does have devastating potential at times. And the ability to get 2+ save greatswords, 3+/6++ swordsmen, etc. is pretty awesome. +2 armor saves boosted to cast as an aoe is a giant pain in the ass for your opponent to deal with, and really works nicely for Empire style lists with support units and detachments, whereas Life is way more about building a Deathstar.