Keep as same d6 wounds
Change to d3 wounds
Change to d3+1 wounds
CannonHammer: the game of fantasy cannon battles
Just because the horse is dead is no reason to stop flogging it.
they see me trollin, they hatin
DESTINY IS CALLING!!! but beer is on the other line.....
The main problem with cannons are the new line of sight rules , they just about give the cannon carte blanche to fairly accurately spike whatever it wants on the table. Trying to somehow "hide" a model from the "bounce" or view of the cannonball will usually result in a rules lawyering or "look I can see afraction of the corner of its foot" arguments which just detract from the game. Personally I would bring bach the old blocking line of sight rules (can't see through/past terrain/units) and a lot of the problems would be fixed.
Why not have the cannon require a a successful roll against their Ballistic skill to do D6 wounds , doing D3 otherwise. It just means they get to earn that big hit a little more.
Besides you could still get to do D6 wounds , you just have to score a direct hit with your Ballistic skill to get it is all, and even if you miss you get D3 wounds which would still hurt. Its the difference between a glancing blow and just grazing a moving target.
K'Daai Destroyer is the only 8th Ed "broken" monster. Although the more I play Chaos Dwarfs the less I think they're balanced at all.
... and then I won.
The Hydra is ridiculous for it's cost. The HPA is also amazing for it's cost. Most of the Chaos Dwarf monsters are pretty crazy.
well this thread is interesting made me actually log in ! grats guys.
i would suggest something in between, that is making sense and would solve manny issue.
make the cannon do D6 wounds on the point of the first impact. ( obvioulsy it havent been slowed down by the bounce yet )
after the first impact , all the bounce movement is made at D3 wounds.
simple, remove some of the (laser guided) issue ... cannonball will most likely kill the first ogre it smash but will stop at the second more often than not.
all in all i feel it is a potent solution.
Return cannons to guess range without measuring. Then continue as normal.
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Guess ranging serves no purpose. Some people like me can guess a range across the the room and still come within an inch every time. Guess ranging to me is the same as premeasuring because I'm hitting the same target.
NOTE: my use of the word "powergamer" is not meant as a derrogatory or inflammatory word used in a negative context. It is used to describe a type of player that uses power builds
Four changes have affected cannons this edition: points, guess range, TLOS and the joint monster/rider rule.
Points: We had that coming even without TLOS, so no argument there
Range: an average cannon user can be accurate enough to make range guessing superfluous so all we are doing is re,oving about 6mths-1year of gaming time from the equation.Nothing there.
Monster/Rider: Here I think they have made a mistake. Shooting should not affect both simultaneously. I think this is one of those streamlining actions that wasn't needed.
TLOS: The real killer. For those of you who stick rigidly to the rules, this is a cross you have to bear. TLOS is what's killing monsters etc, not cannons who have in essence remained unchanged in terms of rules. For those who can accept a little latitude in their application of the rules there is a simple solution; just declare some terrain TLOS blockers, regardless of whether they do or not.
There is another aspect which is that since the cannon was first in the Empire army list, there is a growing number of gamers who play in a distinct way, maximising every advantage possible, rather than follow the more thematic roots of the original game design. I think it is this aspect that made Inquisitor less of a hit becuase it did not have the usual brakes that GW put on their force design.
So as we can see, cannons are not broken but the rules that affect them (and other things) are. The answer is not to penalise cannons in doing the job they were designed to do, but address the reasons why cannons have appeared to have become more effective.
When the burden of "ballistic skill" was removed from the player, it needed to be replaced with some form of mechanic that used the model's ballistic skill like every other direct-fire shooting attack.
Everything else is symptomatic of that. Bolt throwers haven't become suddenly more attractive in the same way as cannons, why not? You can premeasure, they surely get the same bonuses as cannons from TLOS? The answer is that of course here that they are affected by terrain. A monster or unit can hide behind terrain or intervening troops. A bolt thrower can fire through the eye of a needle like a cannon but it's probably going to be hitting on 6s if it does.
TLOS wouldn't be an issue with cannons if they actually had to roll to hit. Monsters wouldn't be so vulnerable because even if you couldn't keep them out of sight, you could at least use cover. The ballistic skill of the crew would actually matter (Dwarf cannons would be more feared than Ironblasters).
... and then I won.
Then LI you would apply that to all war machines. They didn't work on guesswork but on the appliance of mathematics and years of experience.