Look Out Sir!... is it optional or compulsory for characters?

[Orion_76]

We've got quite the dilemma in our gaming group regarding this rule. We know it's compulsory for unit champs, but some of us argue that it is optional for characters (both the 2+ and the 4+ LOS). For the 2+ LOS, the rulebook says that it is permitted. For the 4+ LOS it states that it may make a dice roll. On both cases it is not clear whether you are obliged to take the LOS roll or if you are not.

What do you people think??

[Artiee]

I just reread it.

BRB pg 99. Says if 5 rank and file models are in the unit the character is permitted to make a "Look Out Sir" roll. Right on that statement it makes optional. But the next line states it work exactly like the "Look Out Sir" for the champian which is not optional. That just made the "Look Out Sir" roll required if the character is in the unit.

The 4+ out of unit LOS is optional. pg 97 states May, so its optional.

[HurrDurr]

Whether you HAVE to do something or not isn't literally part of the "look out sir" mechanic, it's a part of the game. It does decide when the rule comes into play, but it doesn't actually change how the rule inside the game works. There are plenty of examples where there is a basic mechanic that you will some times have the option of doing and other times it's required. When it uses wording like that to permit a choice to something that doesn't permit a choice it's a direct contradiction so you would assume when they say "works exactly like x" you would think they mean, from the point you declare you are making a "look out" roll you proceed as normal. I don't believe it's optional I think you have to, but I'm starting to wonder where the line is going to be drawn for rules that were written clearly and rules that weren't.

[hamsterwheel]

Being permitted to do something is the same thing as having permission to do something which may or may not allow something to be optional, other word indicators would have to be taken into context before that can be determined. In this particular case I would agree with Artiee as it tells you use the LOS rules for unit champions which is mandatory. The 4+ LOS gives you the option to use it or not so it is optional.

[Khorneflakes]

why would you not take the save?

[T10]

Sometimes losing a wound on a multi-wound character is preferable to losing a rank-and-file model.

-T10

[Cambion Daystar]

Sometimes losing a wound on a multi-wound character is preferable to losing a rank-and-file model.

-T10

Or that model might have a much better save

[T10]

Yes. A chance of negating the wound is even better, if the character is sure to survive.

-T10

[KLupton]

I have to ask as others have...... why wouldnt you want the option?? I have been cocky before by taking a hit with a character expecting him to be ok, only to have him transformed into a bloody smear that took me ages to wash off the models in base contact with him!!

[T10]

From the actual Look Out Sir! rule, it is not even suggested that the player has any choice in the matter. If the conditions are right, the roll happens.

-T10

[SanDiegoSurrealist]

A player might not want to make a roll for tactical reasons-

- Is it required to take a LD re-roll if the BSB is in range but would be tactically advantageous to flee?
- Is it required to make a LOS roll from a Flaming Cannon Ball if the character it would hit has a 2+ Ward vs. Flaming Attacks

Just 2 examples off the top of my head.