UK-available alternatives to GW paints

[Anakonda]

Hey folks

After quitting WH40k for a while, i am now considering returning. I am however hit again with one of the reasons i quit it in the first place - its so darn expensive. The paints are 4 pounds EACH!

I do recall a lot of people were saying they used non-gw paints and were perfectly fine. So my questions are:

1) Can someone recommend me a UK-available place/way to buy cheaper paints that will work fine on WH40k minis?
2) Someone recommended me Valejo from maelstrom games - are they any good?
3) @(2): I noticed they come in "bottles" rather than cans, how do you get the paint on brushes? Find a small "hole" and fill it with paint from the bottle and then dip the brush into it or?
4) Same question about brushes etc, does anyone know any good maker of brushes that is available on amazon etc that i can use instead of the "they-must-be-made-of-gold" citadel brushes/glue/etc?

Thanks a lot in advance!

-Ana


Edit: changed "not" to "now" in the first line. Awkward typo is awkward.

[horizon]

1) Coat d'Arms is quite good.
Basically the paint GW/citadel made in the 90's.
You get more ml per can for less money.

2/3) Vallejo is good. But you need to think about the fact it is not painting out of the can. You need to drop some paint on a palette and go with it.

4) good brushes are, well, necessary in my opinion. Otherwise drop at a local hobby store or such. Windsor is a good name for brushes iirc.

[Grimmeth]

Err... The paints aren't £4 each - they're £2.30?

problem I have with using other brands is that, while they are a little cheaper. I have to wait for them to get to me. I'm not organised enough to plan all that far ahea with my paints and when one runs out I just want to pop out and grab a replacement.

Glue wise - I use Loctite Super Glue and Humbrol Polystyrene Cement - both should be pretty to get hold of, are cheaper than the GW alternative and work better.

[Bartali]

Hey folks

After quitting WH40k for a while, i am now considering returning. I am however hit again with one of the reasons i quit it in the first place - its so darn expensive. The paints are 4 pounds EACH!

I'm not sure where you're buying GW paints from ? There £2.30 a bottle in the UK.

3) @(2): I noticed they come in "bottles" rather than cans, how do you get the paint on brushes? Find a small "hole" and fill it with paint from the bottle and then dip the brush into it or?

Mix them with some water on pallette. You should be doing this with GW paints too, rather than painting direct from the bottle

4) Same question about brushes etc, does anyone know any good maker of brushes that is available on amazon etc that i can use instead of the "they-must-be-made-of-gold" citadel brushes/glue/etc?

Again, not sure where you're buying your brushes from ? GW brushes are reasonable compared to most other brushes (£3.10 for detail brush, £3.80 for standard). If you want to try something else, your local art shop will have plenty of alternatives.

[Verm1s]

The paints are 4 pounds EACH!

Second Grimmeth and Bartali.

1) Can someone recommend me a UK-available place/way to buy cheaper paints that will work fine on WH40k minis?

Nope, sorry. WH40K minis are microchipped to reject any other brand of paint.

But if you can find some shady person in a dingy back street to fix that for you, you could also try (besides Vallejo and Coat D'arms) Miniature Paints from Ral Partha Europe. A few of the colours are a little watery, most don't match up with GW's old colours (they aren't designed to) and the online swatch is a bit too light and bright (on my monitor); but there's a great range and at a great price. As a couple of examples, I like Deep red, Mustard (two with good coverage) and Old Gold (pale, dull gold) meself.

I'm fond of Coat D'arms too. There are a few places you can buy them, if you google the name. E.g. direct from the owners at Black Hat, distributors like Artemis Black, etc.

2) Someone recommended me Valejo from maelstrom games - are they any good?

Here you'll get a lot of people singing the praises of Vallejo like they were the second coming. And then you'll get a few of us who think they're a bit overrated. I don't know if they actually seperate more easily than other paints, but they do take a lot more shaking when it happens. Pigment getting clogged in the wee thin nozzle doesn't help that much, either. Clogged nozzles are why I'm still finding spots of cork brown all over my painting room. And the claims that the droppers are a superior, highly accurate paint delivery system are laughable. And they can sometimes be gritty, chalky etc...

Not to say they're bad paints. I still buy and use a few despite swearing off them after the Great Cork Catastrophe, and I like having the choice offered by the wide Model Color range. But this might help balance any particularly zealous recommendations.

3) @(2): I noticed they come in "bottles" rather than cans, how do you get the paint on brushes? Find a small "hole" and fill it with paint from the bottle and then dip the brush into it or?

Again, second Bartali. You should use a palette anyway! You should be able to find these wee jobbies in most art & craft shops, for not much more than that price. Or do a google search for 'plastic palette'.

4) Same question about brushes etc, does anyone know any good maker of brushes that is available on amazon etc that i can use instead of the "they-must-be-made-of-gold" citadel brushes/glue/etc?

Second Bartali yet again! Do you have a padlock on your piggy bank, or what?

If you want 'good brushes' from 'good makers', that generally means Kolinsky sable, and you'd better believe you'll be paying more for those than for GW's 'made-of-gold' brushes. Winsor & Newton series 7 is the default range, though quite a few recommend Rosemary & Co. as even better quality than that.
Me? Well, the people (including staggeringly good mini painters) who go for Kolinsky sable tend to revile GW brushes as utterly useless. I dunno. I still use them because they work okay for me. (though I do check before buying) I've tried a series 7 and it didn't turn me into a CoolMiniOrNot boss. Maybe someday I'll be good enough to feel the restrictions of a GW brush, but I won't hold my breath.

[ironduke]

I use Vallejo a lot of the time now, they cost me £2 and you just squeeze the paint out onto the pallette.

They generally perform a lot better than the GW brands but I do like the new white, no longer do I need 17 thin coats just to get pure white.

cheers
Ironduke

[Bartali]

Me? Well, the people (including staggeringly good mini painters) who go for Kolinsky sable tend to revile GW brushes as utterly useless. I dunno. I still use them because they work okay for me. (though I do check before buying) I've tried a series 7 and it didn't turn me into a CoolMiniOrNot boss. Maybe someday I'll be good enough to feel the restrictions of a GW brush, but I won't hold my breath.

I think the main thing with any brush is how well it holds a point. GW brushes (with the usual care and cleaning) hold a point just fine for me.

[Grimmeth]

My local Hobbycraft decided it would be a good idea to remove all the plastic tip protectors off their paintbrushes, so they now all resemble some kind of wild animal's tail.
Only place I can pickup and check brushes nearby now is my GW - I'm a little worried about ordering brushes online as I can't check the tips before buying them.

[GomezAddams]

The paints are 4 pounds EACH!

£2.30. And if I'm honest I think the colors in the range are worth the price. That said, the range is too forumalic compared to the old range.

1) Can someone recommend me a UK-available place/way to buy cheaper paints that will work fine on WH40k minis?

Any acrylic paint from any craft store. It'll cost next to nothing, but generally speaking you get what you pay for. The savings between the paint ranges are a matter of pence rather then pounds.

2) Someone recommended me Valejo from maelstrom games (and all other good retailers) - are they any good?

I bought a few over the years (VMC) and about six months ago I pretty much stopped using GW colors all together. They take a fair bit of mixing but a nice heavy agitator will cost you a couple of pence from a bead shop and will mix them quickly. The high pigment makes them useful for doing lots of thin layers, and the muted range means when you do throw a bright color in there it really does pop out. Then theres all the ancillary products like fluorescents (great for lighting effects) and the various mediums and its easy to see why people switch and stick to VMC.
I've recently been playing with the liquid gold range and its absolutely lovely. Little bit pricey, but its nice to have a metallics line thats so bright.

3) @(2): I noticed they come in "bottles" rather than cans, how do you get the paint on brushes? Find a small "hole" and fill it with paint from the bottle and then dip the brush into it or?

Dab a bit on the pallette. You might find they explode onto your pallete every now and again but.. meh. You might find you go through paint quicker, but its all subjective. Personally I feel I use less.

4) Same question about brushes etc, does anyone know any good maker of brushes that is available on amazon etc that i can use instead of the "they-must-be-made-of-gold" citadel brushes/glue/etc?

For the quality, GW aren't badly priced. I buy one a month on average, knowing I can total it without wasting lots of money on fancy ones.

[DarkLordBelial]

My local Hobbycraft decided it would be a good idea to remove all the plastic tip protectors off their paintbrushes, so they now all resemble some kind of wild animal's tail.
Only place I can pickup and check brushes nearby now is my GW - I'm a little worried about ordering brushes online as I can't check the tips before buying them.

My hobbycraft appears to have removed all GW products as of yesterday

I highly recommend these brushes:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Winsor-Newto...6061846&sr=8-2

They are not cheap compared to GW brushes but they are far far superior and worth every penny.

[Wicksy]

I think the main thing with any brush is how well it holds a point. GW brushes (with the usual care and cleaning) hold a point just fine for me.

Well, thats half the battle. IMO, the way the brush puts paint onto the surface is important too - especially when you want to blend.

To the OP, GW paints are 2.30.....pretty decent value. Valeyo are a bit cheaper and pretty much the same quality give or take here and there. The GW are good. Just dont buy them online. Go to the shop and look for one that has a good shape to the bristles and will hold a point. To those who say you cant paint well with them, go google Tommy Soule of Golem Painting. A lot of his work including blending on NMM is done with a citadel basecoat brush That being said, i like Rapheal 8404 brushes. They are cheaper than W&N series 7 and only a little more expensive than the GW but have a better tip in general and deposit the paint in a smoother, more even fashion. The GW brushes are fine though. Also, dont scrimp on brushes. Doing it on the cheap will only lead to disaster. Buy the best you can afford.

For glues and tools, dont buy GW unless you find yourself in dire need. All the tools and glues can be found online cheaper, though their hobby knife is rather nice.

I'd advise using a palette. Makes it easier to thin paints when needed and is great for mixing. I just keep an old brush for transferring paint from pot to palette.

[sparks]

I would second the mention of Rosemary and Co. brushes. Hold a point brilliantly, good service and the brushes you'll need won't be more than £4 each.

For me, paints are paints and you should have a variety of manafacturers at your disposal. It generally comes down to useful colours rather than ranges for me!

[EmperorNorton]

Vallejo paints aren't only a bit cheaper, they are quite a lot cheaper considering they not only cost less, you'll also get more paint per bottle.

As for brushes I recommend sable brushes from Da Vinci. Not sure about their availability in your neck of the woods, though.
I'm buying them from an arts supply store where they are cheaper than GW brushes. The quality is fantastic (although admittedly I haven't tried the W&N series 7) and they are sturdy. I've been using my current ones for a year now and I'm not particularly careful with my brushes I have to admit.
Da Vinci also makes synthetic brushes which are cheaper still and kinda okay, but not as long lasting.

[sigur]

1) Can someone recommend me a UK-available place/way to buy cheaper paints that will work fine on WH40k minis?
2) Someone recommended me Valejo from maelstrom games - are they any good?
3) @(2): I noticed they come in "bottles" rather than cans, how do you get the paint on brushes? Find a small "hole" and fill it with paint from the bottle and then dip the brush into it or?
4) Same question about brushes etc, does anyone know any good maker of brushes that is available on amazon etc that i can use instead of the "they-must-be-made-of-gold" citadel brushes/glue/etc?

ad 1.) Sure, there's Coat d'Arms, Reaper, Warpaints, P3 paints, the Vallejo ranges and so on. They're all good products. I use most of them. Coat d'Arms probably are the least expensive and I like their ranges of acrylic paints a lot.

ad 2.) Whenever you ask for alternatives to GW paints a choir of Vallejo fans will start chanting in unison. Vallejo Paints are good. I love the Vallejo Model Colour range to bits. Game Colour not so much but they are okay.

ad 3.) You have to use a palette. You have to mix paints with water and of course other paints all the time. (just for the sake of not leaving any questions open: Yes, you can mix across manufacturers. It's all the same stuff just with tiny differences.)

ad 4.) Despite the fact that they are of alright quality now, I would advise against using GW brushes (using regular brand glue instead of the GW one is a given). They don't need to be super-expensive. Just go with anything that has "kolinsky sable" on it and you're good. And I suggest staying away from any brand that likes to have their own categories. "Small drybrush" isn't a kind of brush, it's just confusing the customer and the company insulting your intelligence. Go with regular brush manufacturers, get a brush of each size (from 0 to 5) and go on from there. I like Creative Model's brushes a lot.

Just one very important thing I would like to mention: Never, EVER fall for the twisted idea that ONE brand of paints is the best and only one to be used. If I was you, here's what I would do: Get a starter set of Coat d'Arms paints that has all the essentials you need for your army plus some others you may need some time (red, yellow, bone colour, 2 kinds of browns, 2 kinds of greens, two kinds of blues, white, black, gunmetal, gold), two pots of P3 paints, two bottles of Vallejo Model colour to compliment the rather colourful paints you get from the paint set with some more naturalistic-looking colours and maybe something else from some whole other manufacturer. See how you do with this mix. I promise you, you won't regret getting any of these paints becuase if you start from zero you'll need everything sooner or later anyway.

I hope that this was of any help for you. Just ask if you have any more questions.