capabilities of the eldar craft

[Lord Squidar]

OK this may be a bit lame, but.. I have been playing a truck load of battlefield 3 recently, and I have been investigating all the tech they use. I love flying the choppers and jets, even though I am terrible at it. I am terrible at the ground shooting too, only good at healing injured soldiers

Anyways I was thinking about eldar craft in terms of modern military tech, and by golly are they insane! All the eldar tanks are supersonic capable (star engines flat out are the same speed as the DE fighter with supersonic rule) and capable of hovering, vertical take off and breakneck hairpin turns, all with more armour than anything as fast in the game. So basically you have something with the speed of a Raptor, the turning capability and hovering of an Apache all on something as heavily armed and armoured as an Abrams!

Also... eldar tanks are piloted by guardians. Our fighter pilots are the cream of the crop because only a certain body type and fitness can handle the g's. How advanced must eldar physiology be to allow a farmer or poet to climb in a jet-tank and go zooming around. Ok maybe its a stretch but it crossed my mind.

What do you guys think?

[Iron_Lord]

OK this may be a bit lame, but.. I have been playing a truck load of battlefield 3 recently, and I have been investigating all the tech they use. I love flying the choppers and jets, even though I am terrible at it. I am terrible at the ground shooting too, only good at healing injured soldiers

Anyways I was thinking about eldar craft in terms of modern military tech, and by golly are they insane! All the eldar tanks are supersonic capable (star engines flat out are the same speed as the DE fighter with supersonic rule) and capable of hovering, vertical take off and breakneck hairpin turns, all with more armour than anything as fast in the game. So basically you have something with the speed of a Raptor, the turning capability and hovering of an Apache all on something as heavily armed and armoured as an Abrams!

Game mechanics may be coming into play here. in an Apocalypse game, a flyer can cross the board in the same time it takes the razorwing to move 3 ft- that doesn't mean that all flyers are capable of moving at over 5 times the speed of sound (by moving 15 ft+)

Still, they are fast, indeed.

In Imperial Armour 11: The Doom of Mymeara, it mentions that the "estimated top speed" of the Falcon is 800 kph.
And that of the Hornet (which comes with Star Engines and a speed of 36" as standard) is 600 kph.

[Hendarion]

G's don't mean much either. The Eldar compensate the G-forces with some tech same like they compensate normal planet's gravity.
Flying fast aircraft in general though is much easier for Eldar than humans because their reactions and reflexes are abhuman fast.

Edit:
thx

[ForgottenLore]

Flying fast aircraft in general though is much easier for Eldar because their reactions and reflexes are abhuman fast.

Say rather, that "Flying fast aircraft in general though is much easier for Eldar than humans..." when I first read your sentence, it sounded like "Flying fast aircraft in general though is much easier for Eldar than flying slow aircraft..." and I had to do a double take.

[TheDoctor]

A. They have antigravity
so,
B. They mus have some sort of inertial dampeners to not care about G's. "insert technobabble here"

Their reaction time and speed is much faster than a normal human's. Statwise, their slowest dudes are as fast as a space marine.

[BigBarryJazz]

Given they have such easy access to anti-gravity and can therefore mitigate any extra weight added to the vehicles, you'd have thought they'd be willing to put a bit more armour on them. I know wraithbone is supposed to be exceptionally tough but it feels like they're showing off by making the hulls so thin, like they've been designed for appearance more than function.

[Shamana]

Given they have such easy access to anti-gravity and can therefore mitigate any extra weight added to the vehicles, you'd have thought they'd be willing to put a bit more armour on them. I know wraithbone is supposed to be exceptionally tough but it feels like they're showing off by making the hulls so thin, like they've been designed for appearance more than function.

Well, apart from fliers, eldar vehicles aren't too badly armored (the vyper is a bit of an exception, though a point decrease or becoming closed-topped would help); 12/12/10 is quite passable for a fast, flying vehicle. And as for fliers, the trend of making most of them AV 11/12 is a fairly recent one. The marauder used to be 11/11/10, I think; I imagine there has been a stat inflation that started with the valkyrie being statted in the IG codex.

[BigBarryJazz]

In game terms, sure, they're fine. On the fluff side of things, they're is absolutely no reason eldar couldn't make something far more durable. Wraithbone is tougher than almost any other substance, or at least it used to be, and use of anti-gravity means weight affecting their maneuverability shouldn't be an issue. Obviously game balance, the way the models look, and perpetuating the appearance of eldar as fragile is why things are as they are, but it comes across as another thing that makes them look a bit stupid.

[chriscrowing]

In game terms, sure, they're fine. On the fluff side of things, they're is absolutely no reason eldar couldn't make something far more durable. Wraithbone is tougher than almost any other substance, or at least it used to be, and use of anti-gravity means weight affecting their maneuverability shouldn't be an issue. Obviously game balance, the way the models look, and perpetuating the appearance of eldar as fragile is why things are as they are, but it comes across as another thing that makes them look a bit stupid.

Not necessarily - thats all based on the idea that wraithbone has similar properties to human armour - i.e. more of it infers more protection. It's standard human practise that 2 layers of adamantium is stronger than one layer of adamantium etc. but perhaps wraithbone, being wrought through processes which are somewhat arcane, beyond our understanding and perhaps not entirely respectful of our physics is different. Perhaps a thin layer of wraithbone is just as tough as a thick layer of wraithbone?

Additionally, there is the idea that wraithbone is a finite resource (being manufactured from the psychic will of the Bonesingers which is surely not infite) and if moar armour confers not much of an advantage, your better producing more vehicles with normal thickness armour than less vehicles with slightly tougher armour.

IMHO, it's just part of why the Eldar are DIFFERENT. You cannot judge them on human terms.

[BigBarryJazz]

I like that idea, but it then leads me to ask why they don't overlay it with some material that doesn't have that limitation, like adamantium?

[Idaan]

The Eldar don't make everything out of wraithbone. The only devices made entirely from it are Wraithlords and Wraithguard. The rest of their equipment, from jetbikes to craftworlds has a wraithbone core that serves as an energy grid and cpu, around which other psychoplastics are arrayed. It's a common mistake.

[Shamana]

The Eldar don't make everything out of wraithbone. The only devices made entirely from it are Wraithlords and Wraithguard. The rest of their equipment, from jetbikes to craftworlds has a wraithbone core that serves as an energy grid and cpu, around which other psychoplastics are arrayed. It's a common mistake.

True, although I wish the superheavies - especially the titans - would be somewhat hardier. Considering how tough a wraithlord is, the idea that something that much bigger than it would have AV 12 is a bit... irksome. Would it be so hard to up the points if they are so frakking uber as they are?

[chriscrowing]

I like that idea, but it then leads me to ask why they don't overlay it with some material that doesn't have that limitation, like adamantium?

The Craftworld Eldar don't have ready access to planet-based heavy metals needed to make stuff like plasteel and adamantium. The craftworlds are entirely made of wraithbone/psycho-plastics and the only way for Eldar to get access to big sheets of Adamantium would be to steal them, the plant to manipulate them etc. Even taking the Maiden Worlds into acount, the concept of mining, refining and working metal would compel the Eldar to lose some of their strategic manouverability, which would make despoiling their paradise worlds with heavy industry not worth it. Also, maybe they wouldnt be compatible with psychoplastics, the extra weight would throw their balance off?

[TheDoctor]

Also, isn't all Eldar technology-especially wraithbone and their high-tech plastics, self- regenerative? Something with adamantium armor that takes damage doesnt regenerate.

[Shamana]

Even taking the Maiden Worlds into acount, the concept of mining, refining and working metal would compel the Eldar to lose some of their strategic manouverability, which would make despoiling their paradise worlds with heavy industry not worth it. Also, maybe they wouldnt be compatible with psychoplastics, the extra weight would throw their balance off?

Eh, considering that the Dark Eldar can kidnap the population of entire planets, I can certainly see craftworlders (via corsairs or their own forces) raiding Imperial shipment for anything they like to get their hands on . I think there were mentions of craftworld colonies as well. Chances are, if they need something, they can probably get it one way or another. At the end of the day, I'd like to see a few AV 13/14s (at least 13s) on the superheavies. Nowadays quite a few armies have raided eldar rules for their own, maybe it's time the favor got returned .

[The Highlander]

In game terms, sure, they're fine. On the fluff side of things, they're is absolutely no reason eldar couldn't make something far more durable. Wraithbone is tougher than almost any other substance, or at least it used to be, and use of anti-gravity means weight affecting their maneuverability shouldn't be an issue. Obviously game balance, the way the models look, and perpetuating the appearance of eldar as fragile is why things are as they are, but it comes across as another thing that makes them look a bit stupid.

If they made the armour thicker then they would end up making the vehicles larger or slower (which would mean they get hit more often). It comes down to different races approach to problem solving, the elder go for speed and elegance while the Imperium goes for brute force and heavy armour.

[Shamana]

If they made the armour thicker then they would end up making the vehicles larger or slower (which would mean they get hit more often). It comes down to different races approach to problem solving, the elder go for speed and elegance while the Imperium goes for brute force and heavy armour.

Tell it to all the fast, decently armoured crafts the Imperium tends to be getting lately . Until "elegance" starts having a mechanical benefit, the Eldar vehicles should be priced by the same standard of efficiency that everyone else uses. Remember when "Their arrogance is matched only by their firepower" was a saying about the Eldar ?

[Idaan]

Remember when "Their arrogance is matched only by their firepower" was a saying about the Eldar ?

Well, to be fair, after the starcannon was nerfed, they were repeatedly humbled by other races in their codices.