Liquitex paints

[Mishaman]

Just got a bunch at local hobby store, got a few shades of main colors at 50% off. They are supposed to be a pro level paints, very fine grain. Acryllic, obviously.

I found that they dont spread as easily. And some shades come out very translucent. It is hard for me to explain as i dont know any painting terminology. I am a decent painter and won over a dozen painting competitions at local GW Battle bunker but I always used Citadel paints.

This time I just decided to try something new as I havent painted in a long time and when we bought house i managed to lose all of my paints.

So, is there anything I can add to the paints to get the consistency close to Citadel one ? Some paints i bought are fairly thick so i probably need some sort of paint "thinner". other paints come out so thin (especially the metallic ones) that as i pass over a layer with a brush the second time, the original layer gets removed... Also applying each layer seems like such an ordeal, brush leaves brush marks where it goes...

Another one of my bizarre convoluted posts, if anyone can help me I would be very grateful.

PS i bought Liquitex paint medium, whatever that one is for. Its milky in color and somewhat thick in consistency.

[Wicksy]

Hmmmm, never used Liquitex paints.....i've heard of their drying retarders and mediums.....just not their paints. If they were marketed as "pro" paints, you should wonder why they were 50% off

Still, translucency....was that over a black undercoat? If you're having troubles, multiple thin layers are your best bet or build up from darker shades to light.

As they're acrylic paints, water can be used to thin them out. I add a little dish washing soap to the water first and use that to thin them. I'm not sure about your layer problems. I assume you're leaving the paint to dry in between layers? If you are them it sounds like the paint might be iffy or your surface is dirty and oily.

[CarbonCopy]

I use Liquitex extensively.

These are craft paints, not miniature paints. Yes, they are acrylic, and most miniature paints are, these are not geared toward opacity, as you've noticed. You are clearly used to GW's much more opaque pigments and formula.

Here are some pointers to get the best results from them.

1) Until you know how to work with or around the extremely transparent nature of these paints, work ONLY over a clean, WHITE primer layer.

2) Work THIN.Very thin. You are getting splotchy results because you are not working thin enough and not allowing for the paint to dry properly between layers. I work with them in a very glaze-heavy technique. Lots of thin glave layers, working down to a darker color, instead of the typical mid-tone/shade/highlight method -- basically, work light to dark.

One method I use to compensate for the transparency is, I pick a color slightly darker than what I want to end up with, and mix in a bit of Titanium White as it adds opacity. Once you have a nice solid base color, granted lighter and slightly more desaturated than you want, make a nice solid glaze of the target color over the top. Keep it thin and carefully glaze the color where you want. DO NOT FLOOD THE SURFACE or you will end of with a terrible mess.

3) Liquitex dries very glossy, with a very brittle surface. Do yourself a favor and go get some Krylon Flat Clear spray for when you are done. It dries hard, to protect the surface durring play, and very flat to nearly completely kill the shine.

4) Thin with water. Or, if you don't mind working with glossy until you are totally done, pick up some Future Acrylic Floor Polish, and mix up a custom batch of acrylic thinner in the following ratios; 1/1/8 (Future/Isopropyl Alcohol/water). You can make it without the alcohol, but I find it helps my glazes dry faster and stay put, and helps knock the shine down a touch.

Mix a big batch of that stuff, and use it to thin your paint as you need. My typical ratio is 1 drop "future wash" (as mixed above) to roughly 2-3 drops liquitex paint. You want a milky consistency.

Again, if you are not comfortable is shifting your thinking to work primarily transparent, these are not the paints for you. Call it a loss, and go pick up some P3 or Reaper Master Series paints, and use the liquitex to mix up the occasional wash.

On that note, I love using Liquitex and Delta Ceramcoat as my main go-to paints. Sure, they are really transparent paints, but I know how to work WITH it and treat it as a feature and not a hindrance.

[Mishaman]

Thank you for your replies. I picked up the Liquitex Flow Aid and was working on some reds for the cloth parts on my Skaven. Color is very rich and i think flow aid helped quite a bit.

Have you ever used Liquitex Spray paints ? i picked up a can of Burnt Sienna. Sprayed 5 test models (skaven clanrats) and it gave me a nice foundation of light colored brown with some orange tinge. After a wash of Devlan Mud over basic flat red and metallic colors I had a nice looking mini.

Now here is a question, I noticed that even though i let the spray paint to dry for over 12 hours there were still spots where the layer came off from simple handling (occasional touch with a finger). Are all Liqutex paints, even their spray paints, very brittle and require a coat of varnish ? Such as the Krylon flat you've mentioned ?

Thank you.

[CarbonCopy]

It sounds like you sprayed the liquitex paint onto a naked model without a primer layer.

I have not tried any liquitex sprays. However, based on what I do know, they are WATER based acrylic and not harsh solvent based enamel or lacquer paints like other brands. That means, without a primer layer to mechanically adhere to, it's going to rub off easily.

If you are not working over a primer layer, your paint work will easily be destroyed by regular handling with or without a sealant layer.

That's why a clean primer layer is so important with acrylic and vinyl paints. They provide a "tooth" for the paint to lock onto. Enamels and lacquer you can get away with not having a primer layer as they chemically bind to the plastic surface by attacking the material. Acrylics don't do that, relying on microscopic pours to lock into like a key.

As such, pretty much any mechanical friction is going to rub it off.

Another tip:

Don't just wash your hands before painting, avoid all contact with the model! Do not actually TOUCH your models while painting them. Natural oils can and will come off your fingers and create slick spots on the model, preventing paint from sticking properly.

Always mount your miniatures onto some kind of handle. I pin mine to wine corks or blue-tack them to the tops of old paint jars/bottles.

Basically, once it's assembled, washed and primed, don't touch it until after the sealant layer is dry 24hrs after application.

[Mishaman]

Yes, I did spray it over the naked model. Good thing i only did it for 5 test models.

So, if i started with a "real" basecoat of Chaos Black spray paint followed by Liquitex spray (at this point i am probably better off by hand painting my brown shades) the paint wouldn't "rub off" as easy ?

I agree with your point about mounting minis onto something to avoid touching it.

Also you\ve mentioned a varnish-type Krylon paint to protect minis painted with Liquitex acryllics before. Is Citadel paint formula different enough that you dont need to do that to minis painted with GW paint ?

I bought a bunch of Liquitex paints and quite frankly love the brilliant colors, they mix easily and flow aid makes them just fantastic for coverage. So I was thinking about sticking to the brand really.

[CarbonCopy]

You've just touched on some of the grand assumptions about GW paint, which are completely false.

Firstly is that most people assume GW's sprays are primer. They are not. They are standard flat shade spray paint. Good "enough" most of the time, adds enough "tooth" to allow GW's paints to stick well enough, but not properly anchored to the material to provide lasting wear. It's the very real reason why even Forge World recommends against them, in favor of auto-body primer.

Go get yourself a cheap auto-body primer. Not only does it cost less than GW sprays, it will also provide a good key for your other paints to stick properly. Go light, with multiple thin, light coats allowed to dry in between.

GW's paints, historically, are Vinyl paints, not acrylic (I don't know about the new range they just released). Most of the time (99.99%, blah blah) it is intermixable with acrylic. It is typically more resilient than acrylic (squishy when cured vs. brittle) so it cracks and flakes less, but it rubs off just the same. It's just as good as any other paint, but for different reasons.

You should ALWAYS seal your work when it is done if it is going to be used for gaming. Always with zero exceptions. Fingers cary everything you've ever touched onto your models. If snacks and soda are common in your gaming environment, you've got some pretty nasty and caustic stuff being carried onto your models that can and will attack the paint, making it rub off faster.

You know what I'm talking about. The kid who comes by who says "Wow, awesome paint job! Can I see it?" when he already has it in his cheedo encrusted fingers.

If you've spend 20+ hours on a centerpiece model, you want that paint job to last. Few things suck worse than having to strip and repaint a model after 50% of the paint has come off due to not being sealed and improper handling.

And as I've mentioned, Liquitex is one of my two main go-to paints. They are brilliant, saturated colors and work very well on miniatures once you get a handle on how they work. And it sounds like you are coming along with that nicely. Pics?

[Mishaman]

will have some pics later, currently working on skaven. Lots to paint hehe.

I've picked up Krylon Ultra Flat in Khaki shade. Saw some people recommend it on Youtube. What do you think about that one ? I find it very easy to paint over and it doesnt come out too think so model detail stays sharp. I am used to basecoating with black so it required more layers of paint. With light khaki shade i find two thin layers is plenty. i have lots of rats to paint so dont want to spend ALOT of time on detail or i will go crazy.

Let me know what you think about Krylon Spray Paints