Armageddon and Ork Space Travel

[Eetion]

Hello all. Having made the fateful decision to sell of my chaos and throw myself headfirst into a Green vat of paint and start orks, and painting all those Blackreach bits I have knocking around, I started to slowly plot my army background.

I started off but reading through the entirety of the dex, fluff, rules, wartd and all. A question struck me to which I am hoping you all can help.

Gazzy has led two campaigns on armageddon, implying that the first was a preliminary warm up, before heading back for a second go fifty odd years later.
Fair enough. Preplanned.
But reading the background about ork warp navigation which seems to be essentially board a hulk, enter warp and hope for the best getting spread out across time and space.

This begs the question. How does Gazzy manage to target the Armageddon system twice in what seems to be essentially intent rather than luck. Is there some rudimentry navigation or is it Gorka and Morks divine intervention?

[sweave]

orks are drawn together by wahhhhhh
if this is either a mechanical call sent out or some inate part of the orc pyschic field dunno

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

He, or rather his Chief Mek Orkimides have worked out how to navigate across warp space. Now I don't know if the first invasion was specifically targeted at Armageddon, but the second was. I also think it's been mentioned in relation to the Dark Angels/Ork campaign on Piscina IV. If I remember correctly that campaign was sort of a field test of several new technologies from the Orks.

[chriscrowing]

The current Dex does somewhat nerf the Orks innate ability to do stuff. I prefer the previously accepted canon that Meks have an inbuilt aptitude for technology (and the wider ork community's BELIEF that said tech works, makes it so... kinda) and Weirdboy's are natural psykers. Between them, taking into account the sheer psychic momentum of a hulk full of boyz, they can direct a ship where they want, Orks being attracted to other orks and fighting.

If a warboss with enough sway (Ghazkhull) tells his Waagh that there is good fighting on a specific world, then the boyz will want to be there and end up basically WILLING themselves to head in that direction.

Orks normal navigation is haphazard because without the direction of a waagh and a warboss with vision/ambition, they don't care where they'll be going so long as theres fighting. Given there is always fighting where there is Orks.... who cares?

It doesn't have to make sense like normal races ways of doing things... these are Orks.

[Kijamon]

The best thing about Orks is that they are just downright damned lucky. One minute they are barrelling through the warp in a hulk and then BAM, they appear right next to a place with a big fight happening. Hooray!

Coupled with their innate desire for a ridiculously big fight it makes things like the orks going into the eye of terror and not dying instantly a brilliant bit of fluff.

It's best to just accept that Orks + Waagh = anything being possible. The bigger the Waagh, the "luckier" they become.

[Idaan]

Orkimedes (who wasn't an actual identified Ork, but an Imperial cryptonim for whoever designed Ghazghkull's cutting edge tech) had a hand in many new developments. Warp navigation could have been one of them - Tellyportas sure were.

That, or when the Orks aboard the Roks started chanting 'ERE WE GO, 'ERE WE GO, they were all thinking about Armageddon.

[Gargantuan]

Orks must be able to navigate, otherwise they'd never get anywhere. Space is huge.

[Mallo]

Space is huge.

Wrong.

Space is BIG.

Space is big.
Really big.
You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is.
I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space


Sorry. I couldn't help it!

[AlphariusOmegon20]

orks are drawn together by wahhhhhh
if this is either a mechanical call sent out or some inate part of the orc pyschic field dunno

I think you're actually on to something. Remember, Snikrot and his bunch were left behind after the last invasion, living in the jungle for 50 years, so it is possible that the "homing beacon" effect of the Waaagh! works in both directions.

[Theocracity]

I'm of the opinion that Orks can navigate in propa ships just fine. Aren't that what kroozas are for? All you need is a Mek who knows which buttons to press, a Wyrdboy who can see through the Warp, and a Kaptin what can keep the boyz from breaking stuff mid flight. Sure it's a bit more haphazard by human standards, but it doesn't have to be random.

If Orks couldn't navigate in a relatively directed fashion, Freebootas wouldn't make any sense.

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

If Orks couldn't navigate in a relatively directed fashion, Freebootas wouldn't make any sense.

Hell, if Orks couldn't navigate they wouldn't be a real danger. If they depend on randomness and pure luck they would hit habitable planets so rarely as to make them rather irrelevant.

[Xisor]

I'm of the opinion that Orks can navigate in propa ships just fine. Aren't that what kroozas are for? All you need is a Mek who knows which buttons to press, a Wyrdboy who can see through the Warp, and a Kaptin what can keep the boyz from breaking stuff mid flight. Sure it's a bit more haphazard by human standards, but it doesn't have to be random.

If Orks couldn't navigate in a relatively directed fashion, Freebootas wouldn't make any sense.

As Gorbad hits at: some Mekboy/Wyrboy/Boss combinations pretty much have to allow Orks to navigate semi-properly. (If not to go where they will, at least go where the fight is [e.g. following/coordinating Waaagh! or smaller raider plans.)

Similarly, coalitions and massive multi-tribe, multi-warband forces have to be able to coordinate and combine. Possibly by haemorrhaging a fair portion of boyz, ships and such along the way. This itself might allow pre-emptive strikes against known Ork strongholds to cull numbers such that, though massive, they're not hitting the threshold where they can conduct dedicated, directed and massive assaults - thus smaller raids by so-called(surely!) kunnin' kaptains.

Anyway, the point is: not every ork ship can navigate space properly. Most ork warbands probably haven't a hope of transiting across the stars unless many things go right for them. Mostly they'll just infest where they fall, if that. Sometimes they'll get enough spaceships to properly infest a system (e.g. pre-Tau'n, 'Undred 'Undred Teef, the start of Shadowpoint). Sometimes those ships will wander far enough that their raids'll be successful, news'll spread and coordination will improve enough to mount a 'smaller-than-a-Waaagh!' big raid.

By the flip, of course, when Orks get going properly, the mechanics of a proper, driven Waaagh!. What is it? Could it be that little, nobody-bosses can 'spark' enough to drive from a tiny infestation without all the coordinating systems to still build enough ships, do enough stuff and mount a Waaagh!?

I don't know, but I think it's damned interesting to ponder on.

Anyway, as Theocracity hits at, Ork Freebootas pretty much have to be able to navigate. I wonder if, perhaps, the unique oddness of Freebootas is that they tend not to congregate? One ship, perhaps a small cluster of ships, but rarely accruing other warbands and support? Potent forces, but usually very unlikely to add massive numbers, only spreading information of 'where the fight is'.

(Hell, perhaps it's an odd, counterintuitive dynamic? In places where you have minor Ork infestations, e.g. the Gothic Sector, you're pretty much safe, so long as you let the Freebootas just... go about their business. When Freebootas flourish, Waaaghs! don't happen. But when you have orks but very few Freebootas, the 'chance' of an actual Waaagh! sparking and occurring is much increased?)

As I said, personally I've no real idea based on the strict lore, but it does strike me that there has to be some sort of mechanism underpinning it all.

As for Armageddon: BFG:Armada, Shadowpoint, Purging of Kadillus and Gunheads all discuss the end results of this at various lengths. (All except Shadowpoint being very pertinent to Armageddon too!)

[Sir_Turalyon]

Nazgreds background always said his Oddboyz had found a way to navigate his Space Hulk through the warp. Ghakzkull got some know-how and Oddboyz from Nazgred, including the telly-portas.

[Orthodox]

there has to be some sort of mechanism underpinning it all.

Inferences are the good kind of post, out of all the kinds of post.

If enough orks joint a fight, it may not be the fight they are looking for anymore. If the warp's alternate topography is related to a son being closer to his mother who is 2,000 miles away than to his coworkers whom he sees every day, then an area may become saturated with orks, so that the warp does not deliver any more orks than there are things to shoot at.

[Grubnar]

There are hints in the story that it was not "luck" or "coincidence" that Ghakzkull attacked Armageddon. After he conquered his home-planet Uruk, he gathered all the orkz in one big army and set out to conquer a new planet. Either the closest target was an eldar maidel world, or a craft world ... so the Eldar managed to "nudge" him towards Armageddon. This, like almost anything the Eldar do, turned out to be a huge mistake since it made Ghakzkull the most famous ork warlord of his time and turned him into an even greater threat to every living thing in the galaxy, including the Eldar.

Orkz can navigate very well through space when they want to, they just usually do not really care where they are going for as long there is something to fight once they get there, even if it is just other orkz.

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

This, like almost anything the Eldar do, turned out to be a huge mistake since it made Ghakzkull the most famous ork warlord of his time and turned him into an even greater threat to every living thing in the galaxy, including the Eldar.

Actually I would have thought that actually worked out very well. You have the most famous Warlord obsessed with Armageddon/Humans rather than just rampaging randomly around the Galaxy. And it means the humans are very busy containing the Orks as well. How can that not be a good thing for a race that cares nothing about anyone but themselves?


Also, I would say that in order to go anywhere you would find someone to fight you would need to navigate very carefully indeed. Space is Huge, you can't just spin around in a circle, pick a direction and hope to find something. You have to be travelling towards something, not just wandering at random to find anything.