2012 Empire Empire Core units

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Has anyone tried this -

30 man unit of halberds with HoT crown of command character and Priest character hiding behind two 15 man halberd detachments. ...
a ranked unit of knights or a hitty unit of demigryphs on the flank

Kamizanate, there is nothing simple or cheap about Empire. You fail to realize that you are using 700-800 points there while hoping for magic to stall a single enemy unit. I don't know....I do see this idea cropping up everywhere lately but it makes me want to pull out my hair.

@Tuttivillus: I havent used demi-gryphs yet, but I can inmagine they can wreck some havoc Would they be able to take on a unit dead on? Or do I have to use them as flank chargers (albeit stronger ones) like knights?

Stronger ones? They're only stronger than regular knights. RG and ICK are also S4, and 10 knights usually do not have than many fewer attacks.

What unit do you mean that they could take dead on? Some they can, some they cannot, the term is a bit vague.

[tibbyvc]

I believe by "stronger" he means more Killy. And Demigryphs are certainly more kill than a regular knight. (the mount itself, not necessarily the rider as he's technically an ICK himself)

And as for taking a unit "dead on" it certainly depends on the unit. While it could take on average sized units of basic infantry (maybe 20-30) I wouldn't send it against a horde of anything unsupported

[Tuttivillus]

And as for taking a unit "dead on" it certainly depends on the unit. While it could take on average sized units of basic infantry (maybe 20-30) I wouldn't send it against a horde of anything unsupported

This. And never let the Vampire Lord to it. One ate unit of three of them.

EDIT: They chew horde of zombies. I think it's the only horde You can throw them at, no problem.

[jtrowell]

Swordsmen don't have any convincing selling point other than in units with a fixed size and variable point cost ceiling, aka detachments. They are not any more survivable against most Skaven because of their WS since Clanrats, Giant Rats, Slaves, HPA & DW are all WS 3, so it's not worth the effort against those.

Against those target, the armor plus parry save will stil lmake you survive slightly better, and skaven are *very* sensible to being disrupted, more than many things, as it remove the bonus from their Strength in Numbers rule, meaning than even in range of the general, the best Ld a disrupted skaven should be able to get is 7 (8 with a special character as general, but you usually see Grey Seers in this role), meaning that even with a reroll they will suddently looks less unbreackable.

The trick against skaven armies with lots of slaves hordes is managing *their* leadership. This can be done of course by killing the general and/or BSB (a canon against a grey seer on a bell, despite the 4++ save, could well bring the victory if he was the general, but this is one of the reasons why you often see 2 grey seer, or a sometimes a warlord as general), and death magic is also good if you can get in range.
But other stragies involve breaking his formation so some units are outside the general /BSB range.

If he deployed by occuppiing his whole deploiement area, especially to prevent your scouts and vanguards units to be on his flanks, then some units will be outside the general, they will be a good target for your first spells.
If not, or after having killed them, you will have at least one flank open. "But he has a horde that will charge me and tarpit my unit if I move there, it's useless !" => not so, as if you position correctly an unit going for the flank, then you will put him in the difficult choice of letting your unit pass, of charging it and having his horde outsite the general/BSB influence, making it an easy target.

A disrupted slave unit without the general Ld is only Ld2, and clan rats only Ld5, and with the disruption+flank bonus, they won't win the round in most situations.

[Demoulius]

Tarpitting a tarpit horde and hitting them in the flanks, making them lose LD and combat res and overrun their sorry asrses! Brilliant

I meant demi-gryphs are better then knights because of the mounts and taking units head on.. Er... Units like goblin/skaven bus formations and orc warriors/saurus. Cant inmagine them taking on units like chaos warriors or worse and surviving for very long though

[Montegue]

I play Dwarfs, and by all accounts I should be stomping on empire, if we are to believe the folks who say the book has been trashed. The guy I played had a pretty straight forward build - two massive (60 man) units of Halbreds, coupled with a 30 Man detachment of halbreds, coupled with a small 5 man archer screen. One of those units had the Crown of Command. He also included a Stank, a canon, a hellblaster, and a guy on a pegasus. He had captains and priests in the units.

IF Mindrazor, game over. However, if he hadn't have got the IF, I don't think I could have won those combats. Too many bodies.

The Halbredier is only 1 pt more expensive than the seriously undercosted Chaos marauder, and the Halbredier is almost as good. S4, WS 3...so it hits just about everything on 4s. It's got a solid enough Str to wound most everything on 3's or 4s. With the warrior priest it's got hatred. With the hero and his crown of command, it's got stubborn. It's got detachments that can counterflank.

Is it the bestest unit in the game ever? No. But it's essentially dirt cheap (S4, light armor). And, if you manage to get your buffs off, it's a deadly unit. 60 of them is a beast to deal with, and they're inexpensive enough to be able to easily buy in that quantity.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Against those target, the armor plus parry save will stil lmake you survive slightly better

Only individual models, not the unit. The unit will be killed sooner, so Swordsmen are worse I'm afraid. They also have nothing to do with disruption, flank charged or other tactics. Every unit of State troops will take 4-5 couple of turns to be killed (by Skaven) and every other unit can be supported by something else. I don't think you're likely to outnumber Skaven though.

[Scythe]

EDIT: They chew horde of zombies. I think it's the only horde You can throw them at, no problem.

They can hold their own for quite a while against most S3/4 hordes. Saving on 2+ goes a long way in keeping them alive, and the demigryps are good in keeping the kill count up.