Are Empire swordsmen still worth taking?

[Mentat Bashar]

Hi folks,

thing is, I used to have an Empire army back in the early 2000's, and back then it was all about the swordsmen - great WS, I, parry save, you name it. But now (as I slowly will myself into the hobby again) I read all about Empire players having halberdier hordes - just as I'm ten fully painted swordsmen into my latest box (of the 6th edition ones btw). So, have I made a mistake? Are swordsmen still an ok choice?

[theunwantedbeing]

Debuffed from the previous edition as they're a little more expensive and they lost a point of inititative but still a decent choice.

[Mentat Bashar]

"Decent" sounds fine as paint to me, thanks for the reply, I'm gonna get 40 of the decent buggers.

[DivineVisitor]

I only ever take them as detachments for my Greatswords nowadays.

[Mentat Bashar]

Yeah, that's my thinking too, and I'm gonna do that eventually I guess. Now I just want the army off the ground with what I have (as it turns out, mostly 6th edition swordsmen).

[Mentat Bashar]

Btw, is horde formation any good with these guys? Or is it just ranks? It seems horde formation is the new sliced bread.

[Harwammer]

Depends on what they're fighting and what they have supporting them. For example, anything + horde + mindrazor tends to do well. Compared to the other state troopers they are equipped to suit a more defensive role so most of the time you'll probably want to just go for ranks with them (to contend steadfast and minimise incoming attacks).

[Mentat Bashar]

Understood, sir! Thanks for the advice!

[FLUEVOG]

+1 to what's already been said.

Swordsmen in a bus formation for steadfast and the 6+ parry save. Halberdiers as a detachment to support (or an independent hammer unit like knights). Add a character with Crown of Command for stubborn and you've got yourself a pretty sexy unit.

[Tayrod]

Though spearmen with a WP (for the 5+ ward save) will do better (for defense), and halberdiers will do better for offense...

[ihavetoomuchminis]

I've found that swordmen work good as detachments, as they are the more resilient of our core units (WS4, 5+ armour save and parry), and 20 man detachments are useful, disrupting the opponent's unit and negating steadfast once in a while. Of course, you need halberds or spears (for a cheaper choice) as regimental unit in a horde.

[The bearded one]

The answer is going to range between "no" and "meh, kinda"

They're the most expensive statetroops, but not really that much better. The point of strength on halbediers is just better than the extra weaponskill as it makes it easier to wound and cancels a point of armoursave as well. Swordsmen are the best statetroops defensively, but offensively you shouldn't expect them to accomplish much of anything, especially against WS4 and up where their higher WS doesn't make it easier for them to hit. They can be good enough in a deep busformation, holding up enemies with their armoursave, parry and WS4, though any WS5 opponents are probably going to scythe through them as easily as any other statetroops. I think they be okay against enemy weak and medium troops though, like enemy WS4 troops.

[Mentat Bashar]

Allright, so I'm guessing I should stick with the plan and paint the swordsmen I've already got (around 30), but that my main horde should be halberdiers or spearmen? My 6th edition army had a core of 2 blocks of swordsmen, but I guess that game-wise, that isn't how you should do it anymore. Hm.

[The bearded one]

Allright, so I'm guessing I should stick with the plan and paint the swordsmen I've already got (around 30), but that my main horde should be halberdiers or spearmen? My 6th edition army had a core of 2 blocks of swordsmen, but I guess that game-wise, that isn't how you should do it anymore. Hm.

A horde of halbediers with a warrior priest is probably going to accomplish soo much more than one of swordsmen. You can use that block of 30 swordsmen to hold up opponents by using steadfast though. They're not too bad as support. Alternatively you can use a horde of halbediers or spearmen, and use the swordsmen as 1 or 2 detachments, especially because they will benefit from the special rules of the parent unit, like hatred from a warriorpriest.

[Mentat Bashar]

Well, to tell you the truth I haven't gotten around to buy the new Empire book (or the 8th rulebook for that matter), cause I'm the new guy again. But I've heard about Empire being much more character-driven and the new psych rules for detachments sounds awesome. I will definitely add a WP to my main horde - have an unpainted matriarch from the old Mordheim Sisters of Sigmar warband I've wanted to use for ages, that big hammer and gut-plate the thicky old nun wears just screams female authority.

[Dreadlordpaul]

They are meh at best. I played against a guy who was using them today with my VC and his state troops kept failing fear tests as he kept rolling 10 on his fear checks so i was hitting him on 3s most of the time. Point is use them if you like them but dont expect much from them.

[Mentat Bashar]

They are meh at best. I played against a guy who was using them today with my VC and his state troops kept failing fear tests as he kept rolling 10 on his fear checks so i was hitting him on 3s most of the time. Point is use them if you like them but dont expect much from them.

But isn't that because of the failed fear tests, more than them actually being swordsmen? The better save they get is actually more the reason to be using them against troops that might have it easier to hit them, am I wrong? Anywho, I get the overall point, better to use swordsmen as defensive troops or detachments.

[Dreadlordpaul]

But isn't that because of the failed fear tests, more than them actually being swordsmen? The better save they get is actually more the reason to be using them against troops that might have it easier to hit them, am I wrong? Anywho, I get the overall point, better to use swordsmen as defensive troops or detachments.

The thing with swordsmen is they are good defensively but in the new book they are over costed

[vinush]

I have one question for you. Do you love the models?

If the answer is yes, then use them. It's your army after all.

THE\/ince

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Swordsmen are not good defensively, and neither are they good offensively. Both Halberdiers and Spearmen are better in both regards. The formation has very little to do with this. Against opposing units of the same class - Gobbos, many Undead, Clanrats - of a similar size and in the same formation, combats tend to be draws or are won and lost by a small amount. Fielding anything in bus against such units in horde will result in less kills, relatively more casualties and is a guarantee to lose the fight.