GW terrain policy RAGE!

[stroller]

Lol fanboy. What's wrong with three pieces of terrain? On a full sized 4x6 table? How about the fact that the rulebook itself recommends SIX pieces of terrain on a full sized board? There's nothing wrong with half as much terrain as the game is designed to work with, eh? They're not required to provide free terrain to encourage me to come into the store, but if they don't, I'm not required to spend my money there, am I? It would be one thing if they hadn't been providing full terrain for as long as I've gone to GW stores, but it's this reversal of policy as a naked money grab that bothers me. If they don't want to treat loyal customers with equal loyalty, then I guess I might not be quite so loyal.


Depends on which pieces. A landing pad, a hill and a ruined something or other seems fine to me. Personally, I like more, but then I have a table at home that I can set up as a 6' x 4' city if I want to. It's a store, not a hobbby club. The object of the exercise is to sell you things, not to provide you with freebies. As for fanboy, yes I am - because I enjoy the game instead of whingeing about it. Rage - over scenery? Come on.....

[Asp]

Name a retail business which isn't a money grab. Even charity shops are a money grab.

agree agree, its not the grabbing about its about degree of grabbing, or, I should even say: groping

[yabbadabba]

agree agree, its not the grabbing about its about degree of grabbing, or, I should even say: groping

Meh

no advertising

[MarcoSkoll]

what's wrong with three pieces of scenery anyway?

Everything? Games just don't work well with no terrain. Without terrain to start breaking up lines of sight and movement, then the game just turns into a point-and-click adventure:

You are on a battlefield. Exits: North, East, West.
>> Go North.
You go North. You are on a Battlefield. You can see an enemy tank. Exits: North, East, South, West.
>> Arm Lasscanon.
I don't know what Lasscanon is!
>> Arm Lascannon.
You charge ur lazer.
>> Use Lascannon on enemy tank.
You fire ur lazer. The enemy tank is destroyed.
>> Go West.
You go West. Life is peaceful there.

LOL. Only kidding. IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE, THERE IS ONLY WAR!

Etc... etc...

If you just line up two armies with unbroken lines of sight, it just becomes "I fire X at your Y" and who gets to roll better first. I'd never again play a 6' x 4' game without at least 4 square feet covered in terrain, and quite quite possibly twice that.

[AndrewGPaul]

like the £25 hardcover army books and so much else with gw

The Saga rulebook is £25 for something thinner than an army book and in paperback.

[xxRavenxx]

The Saga rulebook is £25 for something thinner than an army book and in paperback.

Dirty things like Logic and Economics don't get in the way of Asps money rants :P

[shelfunit.]

The Saga rulebook is £25 for something thinner than an army book and in paperback.

Secrets of the third reich with Doomsday 1949 is approximately 320 pages for £25, admittedly softback, but hand picking the most expensive rules availible is hardly a fair comparison.

Dirty things like Logic and Economics don't get in the way of Asps money rants :P

Using only the brand of "logic" that supports your own cause is barely worthy of the name.

[yabbadabba]

I have forgotten how many clubs and gaming groups I have bribed to get started by the offer of some ex-store scenery. Some of the stuff that GW stores have built over the years, after their initial use, have been highly impractical for a store to continue using.

[AndrewGPaul]

Secrets of the third reich with Doomsday 1949 is approximately 320 pages for £25, admittedly softback, but hand picking the most expensive rules availible is hardly a fair comparison.

Good. Now we know GW's army books are neither the most expensive nor the cheapest on the market. Glad we agree.

I have forgotten how many clubs and gaming groups I have bribed to get started by the offer of some ex-store scenery. Some of the stuff that GW stores have built over the years, after their initial use, have been highly impractical for a store to continue using.

We're still using a vac-formed 40K demo board occasionally, and the remains of an old 4' x 4' Warmaster demo board are talking up space in our storage space.

[stroller]

Is going to get pernickety now. I guesstimate that a skyshield landing pad is about a foot square. If it isn't, it's close enough in my head to be "thereabouts". My hills are about 24" x 12". I have a number of large buildings. I know they're 1' x 1' because they have cork tile bases I bought that size. So there you go - 3 pieces of scenery. 4 square feet covered. Note that I did say I prefer lots - and have lots, but with a little thought you can have a decent battle with 3.

[Asp]

Dirty things like Logic and Economics don't get in the way of Asps money rants :P

companies raise prices with raising value of product, customers complain. that's actually economics in action

[Liber]

Yes. They scrapped it.

Ouch. Almost criminal

It's the Gig Harbor, WA store.

Ok, I had a feeling you were West Coast also for some reason...Its been quite a while since I've been to my local GW, I'll post here if there are any terrain shenanigans going on there, although it doesn't seem likely from reading the thread.

[Ixe]

Name a retail business which isn't a money grab. Even charity shops are a money grab.

I never objected to GW trying to make money as a general principal. To quote myself, "It's perfectly reasonable for a corporation like GW to grab for money, that's what they do..." I just object to the change in policy. If my reward for giving them my money is that they roll back benefits they used to provide for free in order to get more of my money, I don't like that. Just because a business has to make money doesn't make all means of making money equally reasonable, nor does it make complaints irrelevant as you seem to imply by the quoted post. If we don't like the way they're employing a shameless money grab, we can and should take our business elsewhere. If they don't want that, they can reverse course. This is all economics in action.

[Asp]

yes, its a perennial straw man from the gw apologists at warseer: whenever anyone highlights how they think gw are shamelessly overpricing their products and undercutting their customers, people will respond with the dreaded straw man: "their goal is to make money"

the problem is, though: nobody is doubting that their goal isn't to make money
people are dissatisfied with the service and the pricing of products (why do greatswords cost more than state troops again?)

its like Sarah Palin in Scarlett Johansson's body: you are attracted to the goods, but repulsed by the behavior

[Warboss Antoni]

It's a store, not a hobbby club.

I know it's trite at this point but this is the definition of the GW "grab the kids monies and let them go" attitude. That's fine from a business stand point, coporations make money yada yada yada. But why you would choose to give this corporation any more loyalty than your local Walmart is beyond me.

[MarcoSkoll]

Is going to get pernickety now.

Clearly you are, if your assumption relies on it being the largest possible terrain pieces that the store is supplying. And even if you could get the coverage to do it (and, while we're being pernickety, I'd point out that I said "at least 4 square feet"), three pieces is simply not enough to provide the complex table layout a proper game needs.

Admittedly, my tastes in terrain layout are heavily affected by playing terrain heavy games like Infinity and Inquisitor that mean that the average 40k table now looks like a recreation of the Battle of the Somme (guardsmen charging across open ground at the heavy bolters), but I do stand by my belief that most gamers use too little terrain even before you start imposing such stingy numerical restrictions on the matter.

Anyway, that's besides the point. It's GW once again cutting back on what it offers in the hope that players will buy more to make up the difference - something that will not gain any good will, and will also further increase the already dissuasive cost of entry.

And actually scrapping terrain that's already been "paid" for and which is helping advertise and incentivise the game with in-store play? That's just potty.

[ForgottenLore]

You are on a battlefield. Exits: North, East, West.
>> Go North.
You go North. You are on a Battlefield. You can see an enemy tank. Exits: North, East, South, West.
>> Arm Lasscanon.
I don't know what Lasscanon is!
>> Arm Lascannon.
You charge ur lazer.
>> Use Lascannon on enemy tank.
You fire ur lazer. The enemy tank is destroyed.

>> Go West
You are on a Battlefield. The Night Fighting rules are in effect. You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

[yabbadabba]

If my reward for giving them my money is that they roll back benefits they used to provide for free in order to get more of my money, I don't like that. Just because a business has to make money doesn't make all means of making money equally reasonable, nor does it make complaints irrelevant as you seem to imply by the quoted post. If we don't like the way they're employing a shameless money grab, we can and should take our business elsewhere. If they don't want that, they can reverse course. This is all economics in action.

I am not implying anything like you suggest, besides which my comment was not directed at you. I think you are getting your knickers in a twist over something fairly minor and non-permanent, but I have experience and knowledge on my side for that perspective.

yes, its a perennial straw man from the gw apologists at warseer:

What a marvelously offensive description. Its really getting on my nerves now that this is how people choose to treat fellow wargamers, by name calling?

whenever anyone highlights how they think gw are shamelessly overpricing their products and undercutting their customers, people will respond with the dreaded straw man: "their goal is to make money"

How is that a strawman? The strawman argument is people arguing that we pay the high prices for access to instore gaming.

the problem is, though: nobody is doubting that their goal isn't to make money
people are dissatisfied with the service and the pricing of products (why do greatswords cost more than state troops again?)

Yet these complaints come from people still buying the products, and coming on here to complain about "having" to buy those products. Toy Soldier crack anyone?

GWs prices are a real issue which is why I don't buy anything like as much as I used to. In fact if I wasn't gaming I wouldn't be buying anything at all. There are some serious strategic thinking issues, unrelated to this thread, that I think GW are blind to and have been since about 1999. As for services there are some areas where GW are still magnificent, there are some areas in which they can improve, and there are some areas where people misread what they think they are entitled to, much like any business.

Yet this is the internet, people just like to have a moan, and misery does love company.

[Damien 1427]

Secrets of the third reich with Doomsday 1949 is approximately 320 pages for £25, admittedly softback, but hand picking the most expensive rules availible is hardly a fair comparison.

But as much as I love SOTR, it's an ugly, ugly book and it's in dire need of another editor.

[Spider-pope]

And another thread gets derailed onto price complaints.

To actually discuss the topic presented by the OP, rather than the attempt to divert it into a discussion about whether or not GW rules should be free, chances are this is a result of the store receiving a new manager.

He'll have been allocated a sales target and told to shore up areas where the store is lacking in sales. Presumably from what you have told us, that means terrain. Hence the new only '3 pieces provided by the store, buy the rest' brainfart. Chances are it won't work, and the idea will be dropped fairly quick. Perhaps someone should suggest the carrot approach rather than the stick to the manager - instead of penalising players to increase sales, why not have a terrain building competition or something of that nature?

It's certainly not something i've come across in a GW in the UK. Most stores have a surplus of terrain lying about in my experience. The only restriction when it comes to gaming boards in store these days is the insistence on using the Realm of Battle boards and GW-brand scenery. While this is no doubt great for advertising purposes, which let's not kid ourselves is the only reason we can game in store, it does result in most branches being very same-y. In the past a trip to GW Liverpool would net you a far different gameplay experience on their tables than say GW Chester.