grand illusion + deathmarks

[gutsmaka]

deathmark rules state that "when a deathmark unit deploys...place a counter next to the chosen unit" in regard to hunters from hyperspace (wound on 2+). now, grand illusion says "you can immidiatley redeply this many freindly units" so my question is... if you deploy a deathmark unit, can you target a unit for HfH, then redeploy the deathmarks and choose another squad in addition to the previous squad? the FAQ does not have an answer, and the rules do not state anything along the lines of replacing the first unit if redeployed? would this work?

never actually used deathmarks, just somthing I noticed

[Ba'al Starslayer]

Deathmarks mark a unit when they're deployed, and Grand Illusion redeploys them, so no. That's the only conclusion I can come to here, it's quite a tough one!

[copper.talos]

Redeployed means they get deployed again, so they can put another counter. But the combo is way over costed and isn't worth it in my opinion.

[gutsmaka]

not planning to use it myself, just saw the possibility!

[Lord Khabal]

It should work! In the same trail of thought, does veil of darkness works in the same way, targeting a different unit with hfh each time you DS?

[copper.talos]

No, totally different situations. VoD is movement using DS rules. It's not deployment. You deploy a unit only once per game (not counting grand illusion & DS mishaps)

[Mr_Rose]

Also possible: A crashing Night Scythe with passengers puts them back into reserve from where they can deploy again.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

When you redeploy, are you still in the same place in addition to being somewhere else? I could see changing the mark, but doing so and keeping the old one, I'm not sold on.

[copper.talos]

The rules tell when to place the counter. They never mention when to remove it. Each time that unit deployes it puts another counter.

And really I don't get the fuss. It's a suicide unit. After the 1st attack it's dead.

[Tethylis]

I'm with Nurgling Chieftain on this one. I'd treat it more like a re-roll, the first deployment (and mark) simply does not count and you use the re-deployment (and subsequent re-mark) instead.

The rules tell when to place the counter. They never mention when to remove it. Each time that unit deployes it puts another counter.

And really I don't get the fuss. It's a suicide unit. After the 1st attack it's dead.

If you wanted to play it like that then i would argue the rules mention to place a counter only when they are deployed, they never mention you get to place another counter when they are re-deployed.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

The rules tell when to place the counter. They never mention when to remove it.

Same with the deployment rules. Why does redeploying override one, but not the other? Either it's part of deployment, and re-done, or it's not part of deployment, and isn't affected. You don't get to try and make it part of deployment and occur twice but also not part of deployment so that it's done again instead of re-done.

[copper.talos]

If you redeploy, that means you have deployed already once. The rule as it is doesn't care if that deployment wasn't the final, only that you deployed. Deploy again for what-ever reason and you put another counter.

But if I was the necron's opponent, I would be very happy that he invested in the overpriced ctan and the costly grand illusion just to put 1 more counter that the unit won't survive to use it.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

The rule as it is doesn't care if that deployment wasn't the final, only that you deployed.

The rule as it is doesn't care what all you do as part of deployment, only that you re-do it, and what was previously done is no longer necessarily the case.

[Stonerhino]

According to the rule book you "Deploy" everytime you disembark from a vehicle. "Each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle's access points"~page 67.

There are no rules that say "This counts as a deployment and that does not". Either all deployments count or none do.

[copper.talos]

My opinion is that "deploy" should be used in context just because of cases like this (and VoD). The HoH counter is given when the deathmarks deploy at the start of the game or when coming from reserves. I don't think getting out of a transport justifies deathmarks giving counters. And I believe there is a faq that in essence makes this "deploy" actually movement.

Anyway to keep it short
RAW: Someone could say yes
RAI: Absolutely not.

[Stonerhino]

I agree that it's totally against RAI. I was just pointing out that there is no rules distinction in the rules for what is "Deploy".

[hangnail]

In order for the Deathmarks to re-deploy, don't they have to un-depoly from their first location? I would assume the re-do removes the first marker.

[copper.talos]

@stonerhino I understand the point you are trying to make. I think we all agree that not everything is spelled out 100% accurately in the BRB, and on situations that RAI is obvious you just go with that.

I can agree that grand illusion is not that obvious and RAI can be either way. In that case i just go with RAW. RAW (when playing 1st) you deploy your forces and after you finish deployment, you opponent deploys. Now you get to deploy a unit a second time. It's not like a re-roll because the effects of the 1st deployment are not cancelled ie you tricked your opponent to deploy in a specific way.

[Seattledv8]

You also deploy every time a unit disembarks BRB pg. 67

....each model is deployed within 2"....

Are you claiming that the Deathmarks get to place a counter every time they disembark?

In the context of the rules (for example Combat Squads) the term 'when deployed' means the first time the unit/models hit the table.
To claim an extra counter is not supported.

[copper.talos]

Why don't you bother reading the thread first, before trying to be a wiseguy...