Starting HE, are Seaguard any good?

[Chicago Slim]

I was just wondering if Seaguard are any good as my troops choice.

No.

Okay, so, that's the obtusely short answer. The longer answer comes in two parts. First, we square-basers don't talk about "troops" choices. That's for round-basers. We talk about "Core" choices.

Second, as a Core choice, Seaguard are every bit as good as Spearmen, at a significant increase in price in points-per-model. For that price increase, they get a little bit of missile fire, but not much. If you're bringing big units, Seaguard are definitely not worth it, relative to Spearmen. If you're bringing small units, you might actually be better off with Archers (who are better shooters than Seaguard, in that they carry Longbows instead of Bows).

If you're not bringing 6 ranks deep, then you're not getting the benefits you ought to ought of your spears (fighting in 4 ranks, which is what you'll have after a round of combat if you bring 6 ranks). If you are bringing 6 ranks deep, then it's probably not worth the extra cost to give bows to your spearmen...

But, as another poster (whose screen-name I cannot bear to repeat, for I am a man of delicate sensibilities) has already pointed out, love of the models goes a long way in making up for poor optimization of game-play...

[Kahadras]

I've been using Seaguard as my main core unit for a while now and I agree that they don't do so well in large or small units. I've found the best balance for them is to run with about 21. Starting off in three ranks of seven is best IMHO which will give you 14 shots if you move and 18 shots if you remain stationary. Bunkering a character like a BSB in the unit is a great idea as well. You probably don't want him hitting combat too regularly (as he could die) so having him in a more combat support role unit is attractive. On the downside it means that you lose a bow (unless you kit your BSB out with a long bow) but the character in the front rank and access to the leadership re-rolls easily offset that.

I usualy use the unit as a 'core' for my army. I hold off putting it down untill I can see where my opponant is going and usualy deploy it on the flank of my special infantry choice (Swordmasters, Phoenix Guard or White Lions). During the game it works as a bunker for my BSB, ranged support for my Archers/Bolt Throwers, flank security for the special infantry choise and target for the odd cheap buff spell. In fact most people who regularly play me know that the first words out of my mouth in my magic phase is usually ' A two dice Shield of Saphery onto the Seaguard'.

At the end of the day I just find them a useful unit that players tend to ignore. They aren't as big a shooting threat as my Archers or Bolt Throwers, they aren't as annoying as my Eagles or Reavers and they aren't as powerful in combat as my Lion Chariots or White Lions/Swordmasters. I don't think they are ever going to win the game for me or ever make their points back when it comes to combat but they do hold their own points very well (and the BSB they're guarding).

Kahadras

[Demoulius]

Friend of mine just st arting HE is asking me the same question.. He asked at the local GW and basicly got the same anwser as he got here, no. He tried them out and the unit dident work.

He used them as a bunker but since we were playing a small points game (1000 points) he couldnt have a part of his army sit still. Thus the ujnit basicly moved each turn and hardly got any return from the bows. Last turn of the game (think we stopped turn 4) he stayed put to accept a charge from greatswords. Think they killed 3 or halberdiers tops. Unit os spearmen (or archers) would have done the same (combat wasent reached actually) for less points.

The idea is good. Instead of having a unit of archers AND spearmen have all in 1 package. It only works though if they basicly stay put all game, which ive hardly seen happen in a game (defensive gunline aside)

[CmdrLaw]

I still say Seaguard are a better replacement to archers than spearmen. Archers are very very expensive and the only benefit they have is the 6" of range. Now while this is a big boost, you don't have to worry about protecting seaguard and so they will not sit further back in your battle line like the Archers would.

S3 shooting is best used for clearing chaff units out the way, so best in smaller different units to shoot at different targets which is not how you want your spear blocks arranged.

The Seaguard horde in a very defensive playstyle can work but suffers the pitfalls of any expensive model horde.