Best 'What if moments' for the HH do you think?

[RunepriestRidcully]

What if Lorgar has just filled in Kor Phaeron's face with the shattered remains of Erebus' skull?

'You've encouraged me to worship the Emperor this whole time, I get whipped about it and NOW it turns out you've been lying to me since we met?!?'
'Y'wanna go to the Eye of Terror?'
'...'
'Yeah, sure. Why not...'

This! As it is the Logar/Kor Phaeron and Erebus relationship seems to much like that of the trusting choir boy and two old priests, which may be the point but you would hope a primarch level being would be able to recognize when he is obviously being used, mind you do wonder wherever the Emperor actually do any kind of background check on who raised his sons rather then just except the "These two old priests raised me and they are great and totally not chaotic or abusing me!" Lorgar must be the only Primarch who took verbal abuse from non superhuman humans and been "yes, it's my fault/yes sir". You do wonder how many of the primarchs actually though "Does he actually care for us/return our love for him?" Just because he didn't bother to check up on how their life before he met them was. Did the Emperor actually ever talk to any of the Primarchs about their pre reunion lives?

[MvS]

What if the Emperor had just confided in his sons about Chaos, the entities that comprise it, what they do and want, how they were involved in the scattering of the Primarchs and how they are more subtle and intelligent than all the Primarchs and more powerful than all the Primarchs AND their Legions combined.

What if he had explained all of this calmly, clearly and in a supportive manner to Lorgar and Magnus, explaining to them the dangers of religious faith in a universe of utterly real and highly predatory Daemon Gods, and also how dealing with them always, ALWAYS goes wrong, regardless of whether you seem to have come out on top. If only the Emperor had walked the Warp with both of them, showing them evidence to back up his claims. If only he had used his impossible powers to correct the maddening surgeries that had been inflicted upon Angron. If only he'd spent more time and psychic might soothing away the scarring of Curze's past. If only he had explained to Horus and his brothers the nature and importance of the Webway as a means of circumnavigating entry into the Warp, with all the dangers that brings, and how there's a shortcut into the Webway back on Terra that he thinks he can make accessible to humanity. If only he explained the plans he had for each of the Primarchs after the galaxy had been pacified and after the Webway had been 'cleared' (which I imagine would have been the next Great Crusade of facing the Primarchs and their Legions).

If only he'd done all these things, there probably wouldn't be a 40K galaxy that we all know and love...!

[DietDolphin]

Hence why a lot of fans of the Thousand Sons are not keen on Magnus himself..

To be fair he had the god of fate actively working against him the whole time and the one dude who could have helped him (the emperor) just said "Stop doing magic, just because". At least he gave Lorgar a reason...

[Kiro]

What if....instead of taking them at their word, Alpharius advised the Cabal to work with the Emperor?

[ManOfRust]

What if... the Emperor admitted he didn't know very much about Chaos after all, just enough to be afraid of it...

Kind of hard to charge off into the big dark galaxy with that as a rally cry though.

[ManOfRust]

mind, you do wonder wherever the Emperor actually do any kind of background check on who raised his sons rather then just except the "These two old priests raised me and they are great and totally not chaotic or abusing me!"

Reading back through this made me laugh at the mental image of the kind of social worker you would need to deal with a Primarch's problems...



Magnus: Nobody ever listens to me!
Case Worker: Next...

[Buddha777]

I've always wanted to know what would have happened if the Big E just gave a "stranger danger" talk to his demi-god sons about chaos and remind them that listening the voices in their heads is a bad thing.

[S_A_T_S]

Reading this thread does make me just think the Emperor really was what he said he was - human, albeit an incredbily long lived and powerful one. He acts so naively in so many ways, almost like a parent who tells a kid not to open this special cupboard, no reason, just don't. What is the kid gonna do? Answer: everything he possibly can to open that cupboard. Maybe not all kids, but probably around 1 in 9 (hello Lorgar, hello Magnus...). The Emporer clearly can't see the future, and is far too much of an optimist.

I think all my What Ifs have gone (that I can think of at the moment) but one more springs to mind:

What if Loken had killed Abbadon on Istvaan III?

[Sandlemad]

Surprised The Dornian Heresy hasn't shown up here yet. It's kind of cheating, as there's multiple points of divergence, one for each primarch.
It all works out a bit too neatly in truth but it's a great read, full of pretty subtle references to 'real' 40K. Aurelius is a talented writer. The story of the World Eaters and Emperor's Children is particularly poignant.

"This premier issue is devoted to chronicling something a little different; a twisted alternate timeline in which Warmaster Horus was able to cast off the daemonic influences that sought to possess him, and where the Ruinous Powers were instead forced to corrupt Rogal Dorn to overthrow the Emperor. The Dornian Heresy is the tale of an alternate universe where choices, sometimes large, sometimes small, have led to the familiar primarchs and legions meeting very different fates. For instance, how different might things have turned out if Sanguinius had instead been found and raised by the mutant tribes of Baal, or if Angron's first meeting with the Emperor had been as an honourable ally against the slavers at Fedan Mhor?"

[Charistoph]

Surprised The Dornian Heresy hasn't shown up here yet. It's kind of cheating, as there's multiple points of divergence, one for each primarch.
It all works out a bit too neatly in truth but it's a great read, full of pretty subtle references to 'real' 40K. Aurelius is a talented writer. The story of the World Eaters and Emperor's Children is particularly poignant.

Because the OP mentioned it, perhaps?

I do enjoy reading it, though. I thought it was interesting as who was ascribed with being the most influential on Lorgar and Horus in the main timestream, ended up dying when being "upgraded", so unable to put the final touches on the timeline we know.

Not HH, but influential, nonetheless, what if the C'Tan were as parental of the races in the Materium as the Chaos Gods are of the denizens of the Warp?

What if the Seers who sacrificed themselves to create/awaken the Emperor were agents of Tzeentch and left its corruption on him? What if Horus was trying to break the Warp's influence on Man and the Emperor instead od turning to Chaos to conquer the same?

[Sandlemad]

Because the OP mentioned it, perhaps?

Always said I'd never do that, dunno how I missed it.

Carrying on from "what if Guillman was made Warmaster?":

- What if Sanguinius or perhaps Fulgrim? (everything's perfect with Sanguinius, probably; less so with Fulgrim)

- What if Dorn? (Dorn was no diplomat, expect the wilder primarchs to break off somehow a lot earlier, let alone Kurze)

- What if another primarch was made Warmaster?

- What if the Emperor stayed in command of the Great Crusade? How would the Heresy have panned out?

[stainawarjar]

What if the Emperor had just confided in his sons about Chaos, the entities that comprise it, what they do and want, how they were involved in the scattering of the Primarchs and how they are more subtle and intelligent than all the Primarchs and more powerful than all the Primarchs AND their Legions combined.

What if he had explained all of this calmly, clearly and in a supportive manner to Lorgar and Magnus, explaining to them the dangers of religious faith in a universe of utterly real and highly predatory Daemon Gods, and also how dealing with them always, ALWAYS goes wrong, regardless of whether you seem to have come out on top. If only the Emperor had walked the Warp with both of them, showing them evidence to back up his claims. If only he had used his impossible powers to correct the maddening surgeries that had been inflicted upon Angron. If only he'd spent more time and psychic might soothing away the scarring of Curze's past. If only he had explained to Horus and his brothers the nature and importance of the Webway as a means of circumnavigating entry into the Warp, with all the dangers that brings, and how there's a shortcut into the Webway back on Terra that he thinks he can make accessible to humanity. If only he explained the plans he had for each of the Primarchs after the galaxy had been pacified and after the Webway had been 'cleared' (which I imagine would have been the next Great Crusade of facing the Primarchs and their Legions).

If only he'd done all these things, there probably wouldn't be a 40K galaxy that we all know and love...!

Maybe the Emperor did just that, and explained everything he could about Chaos to two of the primarchs... and that's why they're lost.

[flota]

Maybe the Emperor did just that, and explained everything he could about Chaos to two of the primarchs... and that's why they're lost.

ive always come to this same reasoning, the two that did really knew about the warp... did everthing wrong

[Lupe]

ive always come to this same reasoning, the two that did really knew about the warp... did everthing wrong

Considering what the ones that didn't really know about the Warp managed to do, I have to wonder... just how much more wrong could they do before reality collapsed on itself?

[Grit]

If this is about Magnus and the Thousand Sons, I am implying that Magnus would not have dispersed the fleet, deactivate defenses, establish the "cocoon" and stay in his tower for most of the battle.

no sorry it was about Lorgar and the Word Bearers,the emperor commanded them to kneel and and only a few resisted a little while.

[Shas0cho]

OT a bit, On another site I am on we are actually doing an RPG based on the Heresy, except the legion traits, strengths, and such are all different and legion size, creation order are different as well. It has been interesting thus far, and will be quite fun to see what happens in the end.

-What If Horus had won? Would the Imperium have been utterly destroyed?

-What if the Death Guard hadn't been trapped in the warp?

[chriscrowing]

First, anyone who thinks like this should check out The Dornian Heresy from Bolter & Chainsword - very interesting reimagining of the whole thing, and more than a straight good/bad switch. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/h...nianheresy.pdf

Theres so much to change, from the Emperor's way of dealing with his sons (the Big E REALLY isn't coming across well in the HH books...) to a good few decisions on each Primarch's part.

The HH books have pretty much made every Primarch out to be a very mentally weak person who apparently can't think two steps ahead of their own actions - this counts double for the Emperor. Hard to believe this lot could command armies and conquer much of the galaxy... I'd prefer it if they'd be written a bit better... it's hard to like guys who are either dull minded lickspittles, vainglorious fools or something equally uninspiring.

[Charistoph]

First, anyone who thinks like this should check out The Dornian Heresy from Bolter & Chainsword - very interesting reimagining of the whole thing, and more than a straight good/bad switch. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/h...nianheresy.pdf

It's been mentioned a time or two in this thread...

[S_A_T_S]

The HH books have pretty much made every Primarch out to be a very mentally weak person who apparently can't think two steps ahead of their own actions - this counts double for the Emperor. Hard to believe this lot could command armies and conquer much of the galaxy... it's hard to like guys who are either dull minded lickspittles, vainglorious fools or something equally uninspiring.

I think that is part of the point to be honest. My impression is that the Emperor created the primarchs as generals/warriors, and never moved off from that mindset, despite the fact that they were scattered through the galaxy brought you in massively different cultures by very different people. I don't think he sees them as true individuals, more as mini, semi-personality-less versions of himself, as his original plan was to 'raise'/train them in isolation in the Imperial Palace. These guys aren't bred to think and rule, they are bred purely to fight and lead fighters. A major question in HH is what is the intention for the primarchs after the crusade? I think the big E expects the Primarchs to accept his plan for them, and I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it turned out he planned to get the legions and their primarchs to simply march into some giant euthanasia machine after the crusade...