how does brentonnia survive?

[aldo_milo]

never really paid the brentonnians any mind becuase when i played before i'd never actually seen the army at my LGS, but i was thinking the other day (my fantasy fluff is really lacking) how do the brentonnians compete if they don't use blackpowder weapons? everything i've read about the empire credits their survival to blackpowder and the parent/detachment regiment tactics, to counter act being physically more squishy than many other races, and less gifted with magic than other races. so are the brentons more adept with magic for whatever reason, or what is it that allows them to continue their survival? i can't believe it's simply massed knight charges...

[Židrek]

Blessings from the Lady of the Lake (can chose to pray on turn one and gain an army wide ward save which can be lost if they decline a duel or flee in battle), and warriors who are super human (grail knights) are the chief reasons that come to my mind.

Also keep in mind that while they do get raiders off their coast they do not have lands that are bordering the Chaos Wastes like the Empire.

[m1acca1551]

Brettonia has legions of heavy horse... that in itself can be more dangerous than any artillery barrage. They are also fairly well protected from incursion from the wastes itself.

Orc tribes, beastmen and skaven are there major foes but these are races who are constantly at war with each other therefore not assailing the keeps of the lords in any major sense.

[Voodoo1]

Bretonnians keep a low profile.. They live to protect their lands and dont venture out to conquer new territory that might not be protected by the lady.

I hope the new book will have them as not such good do'ers but medieval expansionist or crusaders out to spread the word of the lady...

[Private_SeeD]

They also have backing from the wood elves, thou they don't know it. Since to the Bretonnians perceive this as the lady of the lake. The Elves like having squishy human shields between them and their beloved forest and if anything big does go down than they have some form of ally to help them too.

[Agoz]

Well, I mean the empire is right next to them, conveniently placed to keep all the bad things out. So I'd say having the empire fending off the worst of the chaos, orc, etc.. armies probably works to their advantage.

[Craze_b0i]

They survive because the technologically superior Empire is too preoccupied with other foes to seriously consider conquering them.

[Athelassan]

In some of the better (and, thus, largely ignored by subsequent writers) background for WFRP2, it was indicated that the Empire conquered and occupied a reasonable portion of Bretonnia (and Tilea, Kislev and the Border Princes) in its first millennium. Unfortunately, misrule by the Hohenbach dynasty followed by the Black Plague and years of war meant they subsequently lost this territory and the conquered regions got their act together a bit.

But to answer the original question (and echo the above responses) - there are a number of factors in Bretonnia's continued survival, but principally it's the combination of magical protection and the lack of active hostility directed towards them compared to the Empire. It's possible, too (I think it's likely) that Bretonnia, as a more verdant, fertile and agriculturally friendly land, has a higher population than the Empire, which means they might be able to offset some of their technological deficiencies against additional troops.

[Artinam]

One other bit of fluff often (and rightfully) overlooked has been the recent annexation of Empire town by the Bretonnians during the Nemesis Crown campaign.
Essentially, the hunt for the crown lead to a massive surge of Orcs into Bretonnia. The King called a war, a lot of Knights Errant responded and the Orcs were defeated. The Knight Errant, following Bretonnian law were entiteled to a reward (land). The King didn't have enough so for some reason instead of invading the Badlands he invades the Empire to give 'protection' to Imperial towns who have been 'abandoned' by the Empire. Essentially just to give land to the Knights Errant.

It goes pretty much totally against the image of the King as a diplomat and wise ruler. But it does indicate that Bretonnia can have its greedy moment and defeat (in skirmishes) the armies of the Empire.

[Iron_Lord]

The Bretonnians (in Man o' War) also have superior shipbuilders to the Empire.

[nagash66]

What would play a great role in any Brettonnian VS Empire scenario was the position of the Dwarfs of the grey mountains. Most important being Karak Norn which controls one of the two largest and most important passes between the two nations which would be vital for any invasion to take place.

If they Dwarfs side with the Empire they could potential shut down any major attacks from the entire south of Bretonnia not to mention threaten the rear of any army on the other side.
Likewise the stance of the wood elfs who control the third and final pass must be taken into account.

Interracial diplomacy would be crucial in any conflict.

Sadly we have little to no information on Karak Norn and the huge role it must play in Bretonnian trade and politics.

[Artinam]

Note that the Wood Elfs are situated in the south of Bretonnia. While they can move from forest to forest I wonder if they would actually intervene unless Athel Loren was actually threatened.

[aldo_milo]

so generally it's because the empire does all the work? got it. thanks, i guess i figured that the fantasy world was more turbulent like in the 40k-verse. (which i know much better )

[Iron_Lord]

I think Bretonnia does have issues with seafaring enemies though- Settra of the Tomb Kings, Dark Elves, Norse, etc- which the Empire, the Dwarves, and the Wood Elves don't block.

Might be why their navy's gotten so good.

[R Man]

It's a bit more complicated than that. The Bretonnians are much more politically stable than the Empire which has spent a great deal of time in Civil War compared to Bretonnia. Nor is the Empires technological superiority that clear cut. Big guns are economically and logistically demanding and only core provinces have those in reasonable numbers. In addition Bretonnia is actually pretty well organised all things considered, and depending on the source.

[Urgat]

Also, besides the Empire, most Warhammer armies are well fitting the middle ages era, so I assume their armies are more than adequate to face these. And the blessing does protect them, so they manage somehow.

[Iron_Lord]

Bretonnia's had civil wars of it's own- like the Affair of the False Grail- but they tend to be short - not like the Empire which underwent centuries of disunity before Magnus.

[nagash66]

Note that the Wood Elfs are situated in the south of Bretonnia. While they can move from forest to forest I wonder if they would actually intervene unless Athel Loren was actually threatened.

I meant more to the possibility of actively letting bretonnian armies use the pass they control and opposing similar Imperial advances.

[Craze_b0i]

The Bretonnians (in Man o' War) also have superior shipbuilders to the Empire.

Not sure if Man O War is still canon, Dreadfleet is the most up to date sea-faring game and the ships have changed a lot.

(I was hoping Dreadfleet would be a spin-off unconnected to the main story, but it appears in the VC book.)

I meant more to the possibility of actively letting bretonnian armies use the pass they control and opposing similar Imperial advances.

None of the maps I have show this Karak Norn pass. Do you have a source on this?

[The bearded one]

Bretonnia is situated in a fairly protected location, sheltered by mountainranges in the north and south, with the wood elves and karak norn protecting the eastern border, the opening closest to greenskin occupied territory (bad lands, dark lands). Tilea and estalia cover the south and preoccupy the skaven quite often, while the north is covered by the empire taking the brunt of.. pretty much everything. Bretonnia is not heavily forested except for the center, minimising the threat of beastmen, and the empire navy and high elf patrols roughly cover the approaches to the bretonnii coast, and they have a great navy themselves.

Their country is heavily protected by other nations from all sides, and massed knights and the lady's blessing do the rest. Bretonnia is generally not busy protecting itself, but launching a crusade or errantry war here or there.