Thievery of models...how common is it??

[RanaldLoec]

Checking a person's bag is less about wasting time and more about invading private property. Taking precautions on your own merchandise is one thing - going through customer clothes/accessories is another.

Even at stores that have security at the front door (Best Buy comes to mind) I don't see the guy stopping Grandma to look through her purse. I don't see the teen girl getting pulled aside because of her oversized arm-bag. I don't get pulled aside for wearing a jacket with enough internal pockets to easily hide a couple of DVDs or CDs (useful for when I'm transporting media and still need my hands free - though it could easily be used for theft).

Of course, most stores take precautions anyway - security cameras, sensors, tagged goods, etc. That shows decent business sense when you're working retail. Asking to go through someone's purse and pockets shows an unwelcome level of paranoia.

There's nothing funnier than a paranoid pot head shop assistant.

[theunwantedbeing]

EDIT:
To clarify, if everyone is getting searched, sure, that's fine. I've never seen it happen outside of an airport, but yes, if everyone is subjected to the same process, sure.
If you single me out because I happen to be carrying a bag and other bag-wielding customers are getting to walk by, then yeah, I'm going to be difficult.

I don't see how being difficult helps anyone.
You got picked to get searched for whatever reason in this hypothetical example and now you despite having committed no crime are going to waste more of your own time by being difficult.

I don't understand why people take that attitude.

[EmperorNorton]

I don't understand why people take that attitude.

Because they want to demonstrate that they object to this "guilty until proven innocent" mindset.

[theunwantedbeing]

Because they want to demonstrate that they object to this "guilty until proven innocent" mindset.

In objecting all they do is reinforce that mindset to everyone around them.

[gutsmaka]

I thought this was a thread about stories of thefts, not whining abou having your bag looked through or legal disscussions lets get OT people!

[loveless]

In objecting all they do is reinforce that mindset to everyone around them.

So an innocent person refusing to be treated like a criminal is cause for everyone to assume everyone is a criminal? Don't some people start revolutions and group movements over concepts like that?

Alright, paranoid shopkeep can go through my bag, but I get to go through his pockets. After all, he might have something of mine in there.

[Hendarion]

Know what? The topic had been really interesting and good to follow until (4 pages ago) it started with all that "is it allowed to suspect and arrest someone or not?". I think that isn't our concern and the topic was aiming about experiences with theft of models. It would be cool if we could return to that, it really was interesting to me - more than all that "I am right" - "no, you're not" - "yes, I am" - "no, you're not" - "yes, I am" ... ~_~

[RevEv]

Know what? The topic had been really interesting and good to follow until (4 pages ago) it started with all that "is it allowed to suspect and arrest someone or not?". I think that isn't our concern and the topic was aiming about experiences with theft of models. It would be cool if we could return to that, it really was interesting to me - more than all that "I am right" - "no, you're not" - "yes, I am" - "no, you're not" - "yes, I am" ... ~_~

QFT

It is funny how barrack room lawyers still won't accept the knowledge of a law professional no matter what context the discussion is in.

OT - I don't believe dice theft is a major issue. There are so many flying around on a table that mix ups will occur. If it really is a problem then take a dice cube/bag of a known quantity of distinctive dice or even your own custom dice (which can be expensive).

As someone who rarely plays away from home I have not experienced theft myself although a friend of mine had his whole collection stolen and, since he was a full timer at the time, this was considerable. Unfortunately he had left it in his car overnight whilst he was moving and the car was stolen - most likely for the car not the contents (why, I don't know, as the car was pretty ropey IIRC). Some of the contents did re-appear soon after in a local gaming store but he could not prove ownership and thus couldn't claim them back.. I did buy a special figure I knew he had lost as a gift for him, but he allowed me to keep it as he saw the theft as a chance to take a new direction in GW games.

[Verm1s]

Checking a person's bag is less about wasting time and more about invading private property.

Soo... the merchandise that has been sitting on the shelf or rack for who-knows how long, that you openly carried through the shop up to the till, that staff pawed over and inspected to scan the barcode/check the sticker, that has been enveloped in flimsy plastic for the handful of seconds it takes to traverse the floor from the till to the door, that the intervening staff member likely saw you handle and buy...

... is now sacred and inviolable and cannot have eyes laid on it by those you deem unworthy?

I've got to say, in the grand scheme of civil liberty violations, that comes pretty way down my list.

I can see shop security becoming curious about that big bagful of tinfoil, though.

[BobtheInquisitor]

I have a friend who always carries 3 things in his bag in case of a bag search: hardcore fetish porn, a Bible, and an extremist gun magazine. He really wants people to check his bag so he can see the look on their faces, but so far no one seems to have noticed.

[Dyrnwyn]

Soo... the merchandise that has been sitting on the shelf or rack for who-knows how long, that you openly carried through the shop up to the till, that staff pawed over and inspected to scan the barcode/check the sticker, that has been enveloped in flimsy plastic for the handful of seconds it takes to traverse the floor from the till to the door, that the intervening staff member likely saw you handle and buy... ... is now sacred and inviolable and cannot have eyes laid on it by those you deem unworthy?

No, as I understand loveless' point - it's not 'no, you can't check my receipt & shopping bag at the door' (as I have seen many stores do), but 'No, you can't paw through my backpack/messenger bag/personal bag, that's my personal property and you've got no rights to be in there. My purchases are in this store bag.'

[xxRavenxx]

Alright, paranoid shopkeep can go through my bag, but I get to go through his pockets. After all, he might have something of mine in there.

I traded in a game this morning at a store to get a discount on Diablo 3. They INSISTED on having my address in case I'd stolen the game I traded in. I was treated like a CRIMINAL, because it implied that they felt the item was stolen. Naturally I will never buy anything again in case this happens.




ps. Help help. I'm being repressed...

[Max Jet]

I traded in a game this morning at a store to get a discount on Diablo 3. They INSISTED on having my address in case I'd stolen the game I traded in. I was treated like a CRIMINAL, because it implied that they felt the item was stolen. Naturally I will never buy anything again in case this happens.

You allready made it entirely clear, in a numerous posts, that you have a completely different view on costumer service and/or are living on an entirely different planet.

If you think it's o.k. to hand out your adress whenever you are shopping just because you might have stolen something (as if they keep track what game came from whom), fine with me. Doesn't mean that I think this is something that should be done or even something that is smart. This also has nothing to do with someone crawling through your personal belongings in front of everyone so I am not entirely sure why you had to add this to the topic.

[NecronBob]

If you think it's o.k. to hand out your adress whenever you are shopping just because you might have stolen something (as if they keep track what game came from whom), fine with me. Doesn't mean that I think this is something that should be done or even something that is smart. This also has nothing to do with someone crawling through your personal belongings in front of everyone so I am not entirely sure why you had to add this to the topic.

For what it's worth, the law here requires that stores check identification and record addresses when selling items. I sell stuff at a used book store, and they've had to start checking ids.

[Trasvi]

Inspecting my bags doesn't do a thing to stop shoplifting. It just sates the curiosity of those doing the inspection to find out what I already know - that I am not a shoplifter. And I do not appreciate being treated like a potential criminal by any store.

Fortunately for the store owner, you don't have a right to not be offended.

I've got to say, in the grand scheme of civil liberty violations, that comes pretty way down my list.

In Australia, pretty much every retail store has a sign next to the front door: "By entering this store, you agree to submit any bags for checking by our staff" (or something to that effect). I worked at KMart in my youth and one of the jobs was checking bags as people came out the door. Everyone accepted it, and once a week you would catch some dimwit trying to smuggle something out. Everyones bag got checked, from teenage boys to grandmas. Most people instinctively know to open up their bags and get their receipts out as they go towards the exit, and if they don't have the receipts they'll inform the staff when entering the store. Its just another security measure. Do you get offended that there are security cameras watching the store?

Of course, there are some more clever people. Some of the things that I've seen while doing door security:
- People buy a bunch of stuff in a store. Walk out to the car, put it in the boot, come back in still with the receipt. Pack a trolley full of the same stuff again, and walk out the front door, showing the security person your receipt. Only really works in large stores (Kmart, etc). Electronics stores in particular are combating this by stamping, clipping or otherwise noting on a receipt when someone walks out of a store that the goods are already taken.
- Stuffing products into clothes, etc. Much harder for the typical employee to stop, as the store policy gives you no right to search clothes. Mall security can detain people.
- Taking in empty boxes of some sort that you've purchased from another store, or buying a suitcase in a store and filling it with goodies. Again, big stores work better, and many suitcases these days are sold with most of their pockets tied shut.
- tin foil lined bags can stop electronic detection gates.
- similarly, having an electronic tag on your bag when you walk into the store, so the staff person knows that your bag is going to set off the alarm when you walk out again and doesn't bother checking you....

In terms of miniatures being 'stolen', I've only had it happen to me by accident, and they generally show up a few months later at the same store. The most that I've had go missing forever is my bag of tools (tape, templates, dice)

[EmperorNorton]

Fortunately for the store owner, you don't have a right to not be offended.

Just because I have a right does not mean I have to make use of it.

In Australia, pretty much every retail store has a sign next to the front door: "By entering this store, you agree to submit any bags for checking by our staff" (or something to that effect).

I guess we can chalk this up to cultural differences.
I've never seen such a sign in any store around here and I am sure that a store putting up such a sign and enforcing that policy would be out of business shortly after.

[ctsteel]

EmperorNorton - you've sparked some curiosity in me - I have the perception (correct me if I'm somehow repeating a stereotype) that Germany/Germans are oft described as very society-minded people as a generalisation (and I think the same is said of Swiss, Swedish etc. This perception seems at odds with your above reply about the way shops operate and how visitors to the store would react should measures to prevent shoplifting (a blight on society) be introduced. Is it because said society-mindedness would lead to people feeling that their in-built respect for law etc is being doubted, or are the outsider perceptions I mention just not accurate?

Following from that, I wonder if the levels of GW models being stolen can be viewed through the filter of how countries/societies view these measures as a whole (since that might lead to how likely younger people are to not care about such things).


(if a mod feels this is too off topic, please feel free to delete or ask me to do so)

[Bloodknight]

I've never seen such a sign in any store around here

My local EDEKA has that and I've seen it in REWEs, Reals and such as well. Either it's that or "please leave your own bags in your car". They just don't check anything in general unless somebody saw you stealing (@ctsteel: see below why) and security is usually very lax. I once accidentally stole a crate of beer; it was in my cart, they have a camera that checks carts below the counter, I forgot to explicitly tell the woman that I had the beer there and she didn't enter it. Only noticed when I was at home again and the crate didn't show up on the receipt . On the other hand, she billed me twice for my cigarettes, so it was kinda fair ^^.
Anyway, these policies only say "look, we could".

Is it because said society-mindedness would lead to people feeling that their in-built respect for law etc is being doubted

Yes. Actually getting searched without having done anything is pretty much an insult to your integrity as a person and a citizen. People don't buy at a place where you're being treated like a suspected criminal every time. At least not more than once.

[Galfinnan]

When I went to Gamesday before we got off the bus we had the fear of God put into us by the GW staff, that if we stole anything, then our parents would have to travel to Birmingham to get us released (as most of us were minors). The idea of stealing anything had not occurred to me and I am sure the bulk of the rest of us but it must have been a problem in the past for them to go to the lengths that they did. When I got into the hall it was pretty obvious why, table after table littered with beautiful miniatures and a "shop" which at points was 4 or 5 deep. In all honesty it was a shoplifters paradise. Having spent some time in retail I have since realised what a single shoplifter is capable of in a matter of minutes.

In a similar vein we have a market in Glasgow called the Barra's, on one trip there I spotted some new figures on one of the stalls. They were high elf lord on dragon and dark elf lord on dragon both of which were full metal and I am confident are oop now as this was 15 years ago. Bought the two of them for £15 and was well chuffed after paying for them though the nice lady asked me if there was anything else I would be interested and I said yes I'd quite like the Grom figure on the chariot and she said she would have it for me the following week. Great I thought but on the way home my parents made it clear to me that there was no way I would be going back as they were obviously stealing them to order. Was disappointed but could see their point, I still wonder though whatever happened to the figure if she got it.

[Freakiq]

Fortunately for the store owner, you don't have a right to not be offended.

You do have a right to not comply though (depending on your country).

Over here for example, any attempted arrest by staff would be ruled classified as an assault and any resistance on my part wouldmerely be self-defence.