Probably in much the same way as we recognise people every day.Originally Posted by Saffo
Probably in much the same way as we recognise people every day.
Wasn't Hours wearing terminator armor also,so that would help with identification between the two.
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That was fanfic.
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I don't think the Imperium would look all that different, remember all we're talking about here is the difference between an Emperor who is kept in suspended animation or one that is still able, theoretically, to walk amongst humanity. The masses, would hail the Emperor as variously a Saviour or a God. The Heresy did wonders for the Lectitio Divinitatus' numbers, his slaying of the traitor Horus without a single wound would simply confirm his Godhood.
But what then? Without an easy means of closing the webway the Emperor would be bound to the Golden Throne anyway, to keep Terra safe. With Malcador gone, the Emperor's edicts would have to be relayed and enforced by bureaucrats or policy would have to be set by a council in his name, the Emperor's lack of involvement in the Heresy prior to the Siege of Terra was caused by the need to keep the gate shut, we can't assume that post siege the situation would be any different.
Guilleman's Codex would probably still be issued, if not as a permanent doctrinal change it would still have value for the bloody war that follows the siege as the Traitorous forces are hunted down during the scouring (though Guilleman seems to believe the Emperor would see the value of the Codex, so it's not impossible it's adopted wholesale). This would lead to individuals like Dorn either accepting the Codex without question or, at least, not causing anywhere near as much friction.
The only thing I can think of just now that would be definitely different is the Age of Apostasy, the rule of Vandire and the founding of the Adeptus Sororitas. The High Lords would be far less....prone to eccentricity, shall we say? If the Master of mankind were able to consciously, even if not personally, vet and direct his council.
Well yes, the images we've seen of that showdown tend to show Horus in a big old suit of black armour and the Emperor in a suit of shining gold, but even if you were to strip both down to their tighty-whiteys you'd be able to spot the differences, well, a Primarch would anyway, and Dorn was first on the scene post "Apocalyptic duel for the fate of mankind"™ and spoke to the Emperor, so I don't see it as at all ambiguous, the Emperor is on the Golden Throne.
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Even if he was stuck on the golden throne he would still have been able to communicate with those around him if he wasnt mortally wounded, so he should have atleast been able to stop the whole thing about him being a god spreading and promote scientific advancement like he was doing during the great crusade. This would hopefully lead to a future where the imperium isnt going backwards technologically and doesnt treat it with superstition. Who knows if man kind had been advancing technologically for 10 thousand years they might have even been able to fix the golden throne and get the emperor walking around again.
It's hard to say if things would have been much different had the Emperor not been crippled. Once the heresy itself took place, Big E's plan was pretty well fethed. The secret of the Warp was out and I agree that he would have lost the trust of even some of the loyal Primarchs. As a crippled hero, he was too much of a symbol for them to voice it, but there certainly would have been some spirited discussions behind closed doors if he hadn't been injured.
Plus, the whole webway thing was a wild card as well, once Magnus messed everything up. The Eldar MAY have come and closed the portal themselves because they wouldn't want the Warp entities getting any more power than they already had. But as the Alpha Legion learned, they already knew that the rise of the Imperium would bring about the fall of the galaxy to Chaos, so it's hard to say what they might have done.
The Imperium would have been stronger and possibly more focused with the Emperor at the helm, but the Imperial bureaucracy was already rising even before the heresy, so it would still have been this slowly grinding monster that misplaced entire planets.
You can't have a civilization without a bureaucracy . Bigger or/and more advance of a civilization bigger and more complex of a bureaucracy is needed to keep it working.
Why do you say as if bureaucracy is something wrong, or a sign of decay. Most of the bureaucracies are not bad.
If the eldar thought a Galaxy with the IOM leads to Chaos wining why not back the Cabal and not try to warn the IOM of Chaos plans. It was not a single attempt by a no name seer but multiple by renown seers. Also why no farseers in the Cabal?It is because the eldar didn't believe the Cabal visions. Why also not work after the heresy to bring a swift end to the IOM? It is not the original plan of the Cabal ,but a few hundred years added to the timetable of the supposedly collapse of Chaos is in my opinion no big deal.
I'd imagine the Emperor to be stuck on the throne still, keeping the webway portal shut. Over ten thousand years two things may happen - he might find more and more of his energy needs to go into keeping it sealed, or it may become easier for him as he gets used to the task or if he separates part of his mind for this task vs other discussions/issues and of course the Astronomicon. This may lead to schizoprenic tendencies as indicated in the Jaq Draco novels.
At any rate, ten thousand years later he would still be in there, only visited by the Custodes (and perhaps the High Lords) and the High Lords would be channeling his orders. So not a lot of difference. The Age of Apostasy would likely not have occurred since Vandire wouldn't have been able to abuse the power as he did with a conscious Emperor able to counteract his madness - meaning the Sisters of Battle would likely not exist (unless alternate reasons were found for them to be founded).
The Church would not exist as it does, since it would be proscribed by the Imperial Truth, but it would exist as an underground/shadow religion almost like a secret society. Perhaps the official Ecclesiarchy replacement would be some kind of Secular enforcement division, similar motives and zeal to the church and Ordo Hereticus mixed together, to watch for and stamp out the remnants of Lorgar's poisoned words. This group may have also gone on a purity crusade to all worlds that were conquered by the fallen Legions, to essentially audit them and make sure they were truly loyal, and also to wipe out any traces of honorifics left to the traitor Primarchs. So a religious crusade by another name.
hmm, perhaps the Church would explain the Apostasy - Vandire may have risen up to proclaim the Emperor a god, and rallied all the hidden faithful to his cause, leading to the Imperial Truthseekers and Astartes to put down this rebellion. The results would be swifter methinks in this version since the Astartes IIRC stayed out of the fight for most of the Apostasy. However this time they would side with the Emperor's own Truth as the religions would be more unofficial and therefore more obviously against the Emperor's will.
The Inqusition will be essentially as is, the Astartes Legions would probably have broken into Chapters still as I imagine the Emperor would concur with Guilliman's suggestion, but his backing would perhaps have resulted in less conflict with the loyal legions (not that that changes much now).
I'd imagine the purging following the Heresy's battle at Earth would happen in much the same manner - the only difference being the Emperor on his throne saying 'go get em' rather than the Primarchs initiating it. Fast forward to the end of that time, and the same loyal Primarchs probably died in the same manner. The same alien races, major wars, Red Corsairs, Tyranid incursions etc all follow the same pattern. And over time the general population would forget or not know whether the Emperor was alive or half-dead, and would essentially venerate him as always watching over them (as they do now). The Black Ships would still harvest psykers for the astronomican, possibly not as many would die since the Emperor might be able to channel some of his own might into the signal but who knows? If he had enough spare mindspace he may even devise new inventions and experiments from the throne, leading to continued advances in technology, astartes armour, and perhaps the Mechanicum would be more open to research with their Omnissiah requesting such things.
Last edited by ctsteel; 14-05-2012 at 21:46.
There is one major difference with what would have happened. There would have still been a fully functional Rogal Dorn as the Imperial Warmaster calling the shots and leading the scouring. This means that the break down into chapters and the break up of the Imperial Army would be much more unlikely as Guilleman would never get the oppertunity to foist his codex on the Imperium from the position of authority he did it from.
About the only thing that changes, to my mind, is that the Ecclesiarchy never comes to exist and worship of the Emperor remains a hidden thing. The traitors still retreat into the Eye and raid seeking survival and vengeance.
But I'm also convinced that the universe operates in balance, or shifts toward balance, so something would arise to counterbalance the Emperor. Whether that be Lorgar, Abaddon, Mephretan, the Silent King, the Cabal, or some other force with no interest in human survival.
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Guys, the loyalist primarchs barely stayed around if at all after the heresy. Jaghati Khan, Leman Russ & Corvus all left for either the Warp or the Webway. They could have stayed and fought against the traitors but they chose to leave and engage chaos directly. If the Emperor had not been struck down, he would not have had to worry about losing any support because he built his empire on reason. This may damage his image as god, but would leave him an opening to unite humanity against a 'new' enemy which they could attempt to understand while also invading the warp (who the heck knows why that's a good idea) and taking the fight to traitor forces. The heresy could have been exactly that, a heresy which would be pursued and destroyed behind the ever charismatic persona that was the Emperor of Mankind. If he's still kicking, anything is still on the table as far as humans staying alive, it took milennia to make the Horus Heresy come to fruitition and the Emperor had been around since before some of the gods had even existed. The Horus Heresy would be looked at as a sort of fluke in the system, present a solid object for the Imperium to hit its forces against and would also become the uniting force for humanity against religion. If the Emperor comes out of the Horus Heresy unscathed, then humanity has a fighting chance apparently
The emperor after defeating Horus, he realises the error in making the space marine and the fact that GW would make multible books out of one idea, he instead scrapps the whole idea
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Or as Balerion put it,
Oh, wow. You are to language what a Hive Fleet is to biological matter and DNA. Realigning, recombining, amalgamating, recreating... perfecting.
As if the current situation is balance. You have a weird idea what balance is.
The current situation is heavily unbalanced against humanity. With the Emperor alive and the OTL threats that would have been balanced.
Well, then his egomaniacal self-centred plan to attain godhood would continue, and you'd probably still get a 40k the way it is now. Or he'd just continue with his series of incompetent hijinx and we'd all still wind up with a grim future.
I mean, aside from my personal distaste for the Emperor (or maybe just how and his 30k Imperium are written), part of what makes 40k tragic for me is the possibility that the galaxy is more or less unable to avoid it's fate.
If you looked at it from humanity's perspective, sure. But there's an inherent bias in that. Humanity is something that shifts the scale by ascending to dominance. The galaxy has compensating factors like Chaos, Orks, Tyranids, etc. Remember I said operates in balance or in shifts toward balance.
The Arena of Death, where I write the duel you imagine.
The Coming Apocalyse, my blog for 40k and FB rules development.
Do you recall this picture? No? I guess that is apparent.
The two were rather different--easily discernible by their peers.
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