1000 Marines - getting back into 40k

[Malachi]

40K Army: Space Marines

Hi guys, getting back into 40k with a mate of mine and would appreciate some eyes over my list.

It's SM but will be pained DA, with eyes to adapt the models to the the new DA dex when (if?) it arrives. My mate is going Orks with a Big Mek, 2 slugga squads in Truks, a big shoota mob with rokkits, 10 lootas and 6 buggies with rokkits.

I don't want to customise my list to match his, I want it to be take all comers(ish).

HQ

Captain on bike w/ Relic Blade [165]

Troops

Full Bike squad w/ 2x flamers, 1x sarge w/ combi-melta, attached multimelta attack bike [290]

Full Tac squad w/ flamer & missile launcher, 1 x Sarge w/ powerfist & combiflamer, Rhino [240]

Fast Attack

2 x Land Speeder w/ heavy flamer and multimelta [140]

Heavy Support

2 x dakka Predators [170]


Idea being that the Bikes split with the Sarg going with the attack bike and transport hunt with the Captain going with the flamer bikes and burn whatever falls out. Tac squad, speeders and predators running their usual fire support roles.

Thoughts?

[The French Guy]

Hi,
You seem to know what you want and that's a good point.
You have a balanced anti-horde/anti-tank list with a bonus against light vehicles (dakka pred will tear apart orks vehicles.)

If it was my list, I would however specialized the bikes (all meltas) and give a combi flamer to the tactical sergeant ( for double flamer through the hatch).
But you will lack any kind of CC punch. So I recommend giving at least a storm shield to the captain, maybe melta bombs, and using him as a blocker if you need to gain time.
Hope it helps.

[demented]

I'd do the following:

Drop the two combi meltas

Change a bike squad flamer to a melta and stick it with the attack bike half. This gives you potentialy 6 melta shots instead of two combi shots
Grab a power sword/fist for the biker sgt (depending on points we have to play with) and stick him with the flamer/captain squad.

As The French Guy suggested a Stormshield also goes well with the captain.

[Malachi]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Some points/questions:

1. The Tac sarg was supposed to have a combiflamer, that was a weird typo. Amended.
2. If I go all melta with the bikers and stick all the special weapons in one squad, sure it'll be damn effective (3 melta shots), but it'll only have one ablative wound. You guys sure that's the way to go?
3. Is a SS really worth the points? This list is 1000 on the nose already, and it seems like a lot to upgrade a 4++ to a 3++.
4. Same sort of thing with the biker sarg. People have told me I should be trying to stay out of CC with bikes, so it seems strange to equip him for CC (especially since Orks have bad saves to begin with). The CC captain is only there as a last resort or to finish off squads that have just been flamed, I'm not sure I'll really be able to win combats, even with the captain and CC biker sarg together.

Am I right in saying your recommendation is to break the bikes up like this:

- Captain, biker sarg (with CC or combiflamer), 3x bikers
- 2x meltabikes, 1x bikers, 1x attack bike

Thanks again for your help.

[demented]

With the bike squad I would split it like this:
- Captain, biker sarge, 2x bikers, 1x special weapon biker
- 1x special weapon biker, 2x bikers, 1x attack bike

or like you have:
- Captain, biker sarge, 1x bikers, 2x special weapon biker
- 3x bikers, 1x attack bike

I think that its quite risky to outfit the squad with flamers.
You have to get mighty close to fire them in the first place and all there nearby mates are going to jump on you straight away.
If your going to go with Flamers I would expect them to be in combat. If i expect a squad to be in combat then I outfit them accordingly.

At this points level every point is precious! combi weapons can be very useful, but they are one shot deals.
You have two in the army and I feel the points can be used better elsewhere (either extra close combat punch somewhere or upgrading the bike squads specials).

All of these however are minor things that you can tweak as you play the list.
Your playstyle and generalship are more important than the finer points we are discussing so good luck and let us know how it goes!

Also regarding the Orks having bad saves - this is an all comers list so think about when your not playing Orks to!

D

[Balsak_da_mighty]

Hi guys, getting back into 40k with a mate of mine and would appreciate some eyes over my list.

It's SM but will be pained DA, with eyes to adapt the models to the the new DA dex when (if?) it arrives. My mate is going Orks with a Big Mek, 2 slugga squads in Truks, a big shoota mob with rokkits, 10 lootas and 6 buggies with rokkits.

I don't want to customise my list to match his, I want it to be take all comers(ish).

HQ

Captain on bike w/ Relic Blade [165] Pretty stand biker captain. Nothing to really change.

Troops

Full Bike squad w/ 2x flamers, 1x sarge w/ combi-melta, attached multimelta attack bike [290] I personally don't like meltas or Flamers on bikes. You have to get to close to use them and end up in assault. Bikes do poorly in assualts as they don't have the numbers or attacks to really help. I personally like plasmas on bikes. They can stay at longer range, deal with infantry and light tanks alike. The AB with meltas is still ok, as it has the same range as the plasmas and is still a nice gun to have.

Full Tac squad w/ flamer & missile launcher, 1 x Sarge w/ powerfist & combiflamer, Rhino [240] I like this. Seems like a well rounded squad. Do you plan on combat squading them? If not I would drop the missle even though its free. You would be better off with another bolter.

Fast Attack

2 x Land Speeder w/ heavy flamer and multimelta [140] Honestly Flamer and melta should not be mixed. Go double melta or typhoon and melta. Not to mention sperate these into two squads. You will cover more board and more targets that way.

Heavy Support

2 x dakka Predators [170]


Idea being that the Bikes split with the Sarg going with the attack bike and transport hunt with the Captain going with the flamer bikes and burn whatever falls out. Tac squad, speeders and predators running their usual fire support roles.

Thoughts?

All in all its not bad. You will probably do ok against Orks. I am not sure if it is well rounded enough for my taste to be a Take all comers list though.

Anyways good luck!

[demented]

Honestly Flamer and melta should not be mixed. Go double melta or typhoon and melta. Not to mention sperate these into two squads. You will cover more board and more targets that way.

I agree that running them seperately is the way to go but i'd disagree on not mixing the weapon loadouts though. Having one of each gives them good Anti tank, good anti infantry and redundancy. If one of your speeders goes down you still have both options open to you on the other one. I don't think you could find the points to upgrade to typhoons and all melta is overkill at this points level in my opinion.

[Malachi]

Thanks guys.

The speeders are definitely being run separately, for the reasons you mention. I think I'll keep them mixed weapons, because they're unlikely going to be in as position to fire both weapons anyway, and the redundancy/multi-role suits my purposes at this points level.

Now I'm really confused what to do with the bikes though. Plasma doesn't really seem to be that great an idea against (primarily) Orks. I think I've got enough anti light armour and in order to really get any mileage out of them, I'll need to be rapid firing them... which is charge range anyway. If bikes are are that bad in CC, why kit them out for it at all? Shouldn't I be dropping the Relic blade for a Power Weapon and getting more dakka? And melta on all the bikes seems like I'm overdoing anti-vehicle. I've got a lot already, I'm going to need something to tackle all those Orks (over 60 bodies to my 18). And I thought flamers would be good for burning them off objectives?

I recognise that these are minor issues demented (et al.), but the weapon loadout for the bikes radically changes their role.

[Balsak_da_mighty]

@ demented: Ok, well my real issue with a flamer on a speeder is. You have to get righe next to the squad. That means assualt range to the speeder that means rapid fire range to speeder. Speeders are n ot tough to deal with and you are making them that much more easy to deal with by giving them a charge against it. I like to keep my speeders well out of range of small arms fire and assualts.

@Malachi: I thought you wanted a take on all comers list. Now you are saying that Plasma's are not good against Orks. Well yes they are not the best against Orks, but you will like them against most other army's. Which is it. You building a list for Orks or take on all comers?

[The French Guy]

Hi,
Basically, most of your squads have a dual role (flamer-ML/ melta-TL bolters/ autocanon-HB/ MM-HF).
But the only thing that should go to CC is your captain, everything else go mid range and shoot. Your bikes could tarpit a unit if something is overwhelming you but it's not an ideal.. So I would drop the powerfists.

Land speeders are really fine, the best load out is IMHO typhoon ML + MM because you have range, good anti armour and decent anti infantry (both anti marines or anti light infantry) but the MM/HF is his cheap little brother. Of course HF put you near ennemy, but you have mobility, so don't throw yourself anywhere, dog fights are for speeders, attack weak, unsupported units or finish one already shot by the rest of your army.

I would not give plasma to bikes, because against tanks, melta works better and TL bolters are efficient against orks. Furthermore, you die like any marines against overheating plasma and you cost a lot. IMHO, plasma should be taken on tanks or command squads (thx to feel no pain).

Your bike squad should have 8 bikers and an AB (so 10 members) and could be: 5 bikers(2 meltas) and 3 bikers (1combi melta) with the multimelta AB.
You should be able to fight orks as well as marines at this pts level (you have anti horde, anti light tanks as well as anti 2+ and heavy tanks, a CC blocker, mobility, mid range and a bit of long range firepower) Just don't let your opponent overwhelm you, you have range and mobility, so choose your fights.
Hope it helps!

[Malachi]

Thanks for continued input guys.

What should I do different if I plan on just tooling up against Orks? (while keeping the basic army structure of bike captain, bikes and a tac squad)

I'm thinking of dropping the powerfists, relic blade (turning into a PW) and a dakka pred to get a Rifleman Dread. Should I still stay with all the melta on the bikes if I'm focusing on Orks? Epecially since I've got a lot of anti light already, so I feel I need something to vape the boyz.