This is an interesting one.
Watchtower scenario - 20 strong infantry core unit can go in the watchtower.
20 core empire men go in. So the detatchments have to go within 3inch.
Gets better. Unit in tower is steadfast, so then the detatchments are stubborn.
Gets better, units can then conga line into opponant's deployment zone.
Very gamey. I strongley disagree but yet cannot find the flaw to stop them doing this.
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Units must deploy in their deployment zone.
Okay, that was a little short: Unless they are explicitly excluded, like scouts, or the one single unit in the WT scenario. That's the parent - the detachment is not allowed to deploy outside its DZ, and therefore you cannot deploy any part of this "brigade" in the tower. We've had this before.
Last edited by Lord Solar Plexus; 11-05-2012 at 22:11.
One way to win watchtower,get a large unit of flagellants in there,always the first round of combat so always strength 5.gona take some getting them outa there.
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I'll take your Flagellants and turf you out with a unit of Sword Masters. Or Chaos Warriors. Or anything else that has multiple attacks and goes before the Flagellants.Originally Posted by Grit
Add in flaming attacks on the attacking unit (Banner of Eternal Flame, Flaming Sword of Rhuin etc) and I doubt it'd take more than two rounds.
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Sure if they can get there at full strength,and most people I see,don't use large units of Swordmasters and Chaos Warriors are more points that Flagellants
Tactical Squads don't suck
Ok. Bringing this back on the actual topic.
Watchtower: "the player that controls the watchtower may deploy a single unit in the watchtower at the start of the game."
Ok, done. It has a detatchment: "Detatchments must be placed at the same time as their regimental unit with at least one model within 3in."
I cannot find any other rule which supercedes this that states that the detatchment is not deployed at the same time.
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Oh, you do deploy the detachments at the same time, only thing is that what you are missing is that this doesn't mean they get to hang around next to the watchtower in the middle of the board, it means that a unit with detachments cannot be used to hold the tower at deployment, because their detachements must still be deployed within 3" of the unit, and in your deployment zone.
It seems to me the parent unit would be able to deploy in the watchtower. Afterwards, the detachment unit would have no valid deployment location and therefor be counted for victory points.
I see nothing stopping the parent units deployment though.
There's no rule for not being able to deploy a unit is there?
You have two options. One is valid (deploy unit and detachment in deployment zone) and the other is entirely optional and leads to an invalid rules situation (detachment can't deploy in deployment zone and within 3" of the parent unit). You can't make the invalid decision, so the unit simply can't deploy in the watch tower if it has a detachment.
One big problem with your hypothesis; it's all made up, there are no rules to support it at all.
The others are right in that te parent simply can't deploy in the watchtower.
The only assumption I've made is the victory points for the unit which can't be deployed. (which is debatable) what I don't see is anywhere that it says you have to leave room for the detachment to place the parent unit.
With that reasoning, if I had filled up my deployment zone due to poor planning or whatever, and still had room for my parent unit yet no room for both parent/detachment, then I would be unable to deploy either?
I wont argue this point anymore though, since it's all theoretical. It doesn't even give an advantage to the Empire army. If I am right and the Empire army can do what I suggest he is just hindering himself by removing his helpful detachment unit from the field.
In my opinion the game would come to a screeching halt since you can't do what you have to do to continue. Were this at a tournament and I the judge I would then say that since you can't continue the game and your opponent legally could if you were to deploy another unit, you forfeit. If we were using the Dawn Attack scenario I would have any unit that can't fit in the proper section come on from your board edge as reinforcements.
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Is a 10 man detachment so scary that you would not allow you opponent to deploy in the watchtower. A little sportsmanship goes a long way gents.
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You are missing a (not so) subtle tactical nuance here; A detachment is a get out of assault free-card... Its counter charge cancel an assault on the building (See FAQ), taking away that chance you had to capture the building while it was still held by a relatively weak unit (before that one exits and leave room for the 50 strong unit with characters and all the bells and whistles). They just got at least one safe turn, with the not neglectable chance of your assaulting unit either not destroying the detachment and pursuing them off position, or simply being held in place by them being steadfast, due to it being granted to their parent unit for being in a building*.
Playing by the rules is not bad sportsmanship, and allowing your opponent to break them is not good ditto...
Well said .
Well that is a very simple tactical situation, charge both the parent unit and the detachment with a small cavalry unit, not too hard to figure out, but the rules are a slightly gray area, and could really benefit from an FAQ.
It's not pronounced "ass-tarts" silly
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I can't see the problem. You cannot deploy a core parent unit in the Tower if it has detachments; the rules do not allow it.
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Well, yes, but now you are applying the captain obvious solution, charging the detachment, without realising how in this situation the detachment may well be a fair bit behind the building (and add to that the buildings size, since it "is" the parent unit at the moment), and still (reasonably) safely be able to countercharge someone attacking the building. Say the watchtower has a 6" side, and placed in the middle correctly, so 3" of it is on your opponents half of the table, after the 12" over to the center line, and then the detachments is another 3" behind that, you are already looking at 18" needed, and that is before considering that you are going diagonally (since you likely wanted your main assualt unit going for the tower itself, the shortest route), for another handful of inches... provided it was a straight run without any terrain in the way to start with... It is not as easy as you think it is (and that is assuming you even have some speedy horseys in your force to begin with).
It doesn't matter though, the rules are not gray... they don't become gray just because someone want it to read some way or other.
These guys win hands down in my opinion. It is a simple cases of Okkam's Razor; the simplest solution is they can't deploy in the tower. This makes much more sense than not deploying the detachments at all, or allowing the detachments to deploy out of parent range. The latter two are both cases of making up rules to supply a solution; the Razor says the former-most solution is correct because there are no added assumptions (rules in this case).
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