Empire detatchments and watchtower

[Valaraukar]

There is also istn't a legitimate fluff explanation for me not winning every game cause my orcs are awsome.
But that has noting to do whit the rules.

I think this should be put forward as a matter of utmost priority to the FAQ / Erratta submission

[bad dice]

I think this should be put forward as a matter of utmost priority to the FAQ / Erratta submission

I am inclined to agree

[T10]

Q.: I am trying to do something but the rules wont let me. Am I doing it wrong?
A.: Yes.

-T10

[geldedgoat]

Deploying ALL your army in that scenario is not optional.

Before I write up my final post, where did you find this? I checked the watchtower rules on page 150 and the regular deployment rules on page 142, and I see no mention of that rule. If it exists, then that would prevent the parent from deploying in the watchtower.

[Scalebug]

What Mercules means is that there is generally no rule for not putting your units on the table... Some scenarios deal with reserves, some specific units have their own rules (eg. Beastman Ambush, Tomb King buried stuff, things like that), but unless otherwise noted, you deploy your army.

Are you now going to start claiming you are allowed to keep stuff of the table because there is no rule saying you cannot do so? Seriously? There is no rule saying Goblins cannot fly, does this mean they can?

[geldedgoat]

Are you now going to start claiming you are allowed to keep stuff of the table because there is no rule saying you cannot do so?

Man, you're awesome at jumping to conclusions. Lemme try: are you now going to start claiming you would object to your opponent voluntarily bringing less than his allotted points?

[Scalebug]

Then perhaps tell us what you mean, if that wasn't it?

Enlighten us...


(There is a difference between showing up with list of less than the set value (and fairly common, as noted in the rules, things like playing a 1996 pts army in a 2000 pts battle, because you can't fit in the last points), and leaving a unit that was in your list off the table...)

[Mercules]

Before I write up my final post, where did you find this? I checked the watchtower rules on page 150 and the regular deployment rules on page 142, and I see no mention of that rule. If it exists, then that would prevent the parent from deploying in the watchtower.

There is no actual wording of, "You must deploy all your troops every battle." in the book. However there is no exception made and as points are scored for destroying enemy units a person could have an advantage by not deploying a unit that could be easily killed by the opposition for points.

It is VERY strongly implied in the deployment section that each person will deploy all their troops as well at the "Deployment Special Rules" section of the book where it states things like:

Scouts are set up after all other non-Scout unit from both armies have been deployed.

and then

After both sides have deployed all their other forces (including Scouts), but before either side has taken a turn...

Basically, the game assumes you deploy everything that doesn't have a deployment exception and so has not said, "You must." but has assumed you must and put the exceptions to this unstated rule.

[Damocles8]

There is also istn't a legitimate fluff explanation for me not winning every game cause my orcs are awsome.
But that has noting to do whit the rules.

Just like this thread.

It's all just arguing that one should be able to break the rules, cause well yea I just want to and empire is special.

It's just silly. You can't do it live whit it and include a unit whit no detachments. It's the worst scenario any way so it can live whit one more thing that f's it up.

Wonderful use of the English language, and a wonderfully open mind. It's funny that I discussed it with one other person in my area (we were at work, so it's more theory than anything else) and after looking at the rules himself, he came to the conclusion that the detachment could be outside of the tower within 3"

[Scalebug]

Wonderful use of the English language, and a wonderfully open mind. It's funny that I discussed it with one other person in my area (we were at work, so it's more theory than anything else) and after looking at the rules himself, he came to the conclusion that the detachment could be outside of the tower within 3"

Great move attacking the guys language there, you rhetoric master you...

And that random guy at your work? Wow, we are sold... unless someone comes on reporting having discussed it with two co-corkers that found it to be a no on deploying detachments there... then your guy is outvoted, that is how this is supposed to work, isn't it?

(For clarification; Yes, that was a sarcastic put down of Damocles non-argument, just so everyone is clear here.)

[RanaldLoec]

Man, you're awesome at jumping to conclusions. Lemme try: are you now going to start claiming you would object to your opponent voluntarily bringing less than his allotted points?

That's points denial so yes.

If my opponent fields 1500 to my 2000 then that's 500 points I can't get?

The fact is the rules set is a permissive rule set.

Meaning it allows you to perform certain actions within the set restrictions.

The watch tower allows deployment within 12" of the long table edge.

And

Up to one 20 man core unit in the watch tower.

The Scout special rule gives permission to break those rules.

As does the Woodelves waywatcher deployment rules.

The detachment rules doesn't give permission to break those rules.
The detachment rule gives a specific set of rules that must be met to deploy.

1) the parent unit and detachment must be deployed at the same time.

2) the detachment must be within 3" of the parent unit.

If any of the above two rules can't be adhered to then the unit can't deploy.

The having to deploy within 3" is a requirement but doesn't give permission to break other deployment rules.

So all the requirements for the scenario and detachment rule must be adhered to.

Meaning you can't deploy in the tower.


Stop HAMMER TIME.

(Karl Franz does the running man).

[yabbadabba]

As far as I can see no one has come up with a explanation, using defined rules, which allows any other interpretation other than an Empire core unit with detachments cannot set up in the watchtower. Can someone show where this is allowed please?

[RanaldLoec]

As far as I can see no one has come up with a explanation, using defined rules, which allows any other interpretation other than an Empire core unit with detachments cannot set up in the watchtower. Can someone show where this is allowed please?

No one can. But that's never stopped any one before.

[bad dice]

Man, you're awesome at jumping to conclusions. Lemme try: are you now going to start claiming you would object to your opponent voluntarily bringing less than his allotted points?

YES
at tournaments I would most defently object to that if he came whit a lot less points then the norm

[Damocles8]

Great move attacking the guys language there, you rhetoric master you...

And that random guy at your work? Wow, we are sold... unless someone comes on reporting having discussed it with two co-corkers that found it to be a no on deploying detachments there... then your guy is outvoted, that is how this is supposed to work, isn't it?

(For clarification; Yes, that was a sarcastic put down of Damocles non-argument, just so everyone is clear here.)

Maybe I wasn't clear, he is a fantasy player from our local group who plays High Elves, not some random person from work.

[Scalebug]

Maybe I wasn't clear, he is a fantasy player from our local group who plays High Elves, not some random person from work.

Yeah, maybe that was understood, but it still doesn't matter... The two guys that said no to it maybe play fantasy too?

Point is, nobody cares about who you spoke to.

[Damocles8]

Yeah, maybe that was understood, but it still doesn't matter... The two guys that said no to it maybe play fantasy too?

Point is, nobody cares about who you spoke to.

Wow the friendliness here is so refreshing. My army book says that the detachment MUST deploy within 3" of the Parent unit when it is deployed, overriding the BRB, seems simple enough of an argument to me.

[Mercules]

Wow the friendliness here is so refreshing. My army book says that the detachment MUST deploy within 3" of the Parent unit when it is deployed, overriding the BRB, seems simple enough of an argument to me.

You only "Override" when there is a conflict. As you can resolve this issue without creating a conflict between the rules that is the correct interpretation, not the one that forces a conflict between non-conflicting rules so that you can default to overriding one.

[bad dice]

I guess this is the whole reading into things again.

Assuming that if you must do something you may do every thing else is just silly

Or are you saying that I could take a 80 strong unit of spearman make them stubborn whit the crown deploy them 12 inch forward. And then deploy my two detachment of 40 sword men diagonal across the table. Blocking of almost the whole board whit two stubborn units? As long as they are whitin 3 of my spearman.

OF COURSE NOT.

[Scalebug]

Wow the friendliness here is so refreshing. My army book says that the detachment MUST deploy within 3" of the Parent unit when it is deployed, overriding the BRB, seems simple enough of an argument to me.

It not about being unfriendly, it is about informing you that that was no argument... if guy X had something to add, he could have come on here and state it, just claiming that someone agreed with you and thinking this will make people see your point as strengthened is just naive and/or ridiculous.

And about Armybook overriding BRB, this is not a case of this. As I pointed out earlier; If there is no room in a spot to deploy the detachments, do you think that you can still place them, because your army book say they must be deployed within 3"?

(Edit: Talking about a random spot in your deployment zone there, not the watch tower, just to clarify.)