Can comp make things better?

[Pancakey]

Ogres are expensive army, points per model. so there is not alot of them, so are easily out minovered. And as far as the dragon banner goes, there is only 1 in the army and in a standard 1500 point game the unit carrying it is around 650 to 700 points. over a third of the over all army. in one unit, talk ablut all your eggs in one basket.





out the box warhammer is achually really good, and requires little comp, but I feel the need again to say GW is ment to be played as a fun game with your mates. That is why comparing models points in one book to another is pointless, as Gw have said time and time again the books are balanced within themselves are are designed to build balanced lists for fun games, not competive games. It is not a tordiemnt game. Alot of the tordiments that GW produces are fun games which is more about enjoying the game then the competative nature of the game.

It is the comunity which has said we want to make it competative. Which GW has said is fine, do with it as you will. This in turn has created it own problems as the comunity has made comp packs which allow yoyu to play the game differently It doesn't solve the problem it just moves the problem to a different area.

yes game design is not rocket sience, but it is an ongoing process, look at privater press, they are forever fixing there sinking ship.

This!

How can anyone think that GW has "NO IDEAS" how the game plays?

If you want a 100% balanced game, play chess. That is until someones decides, "OMG first move it totally OP! The designers of chess have no clue!"

[Malorian]

If you want a 100% balanced game, play chess. That is until someones decides, "OMG first move it totally OP! The designers of chess have no clue!"

This is why my gaming group has moved to dueling pistols at 10 paces.

For a while we thought Cross-eyed Curtis would be at a disadvantage, but things worked themself out and the system is balanced again.

RIP Curt...

[yabbadabba]

-List all your units
-Throw them into a bag
-Pull them out one by one until you are at point limit, then pull out 3 more
-Discard to get to point level

Obviously you would have to ignore the % rules, but it would make for some interesting lists if nothing else. I'm actually keen to try it with my orcs

Could always go for not using points other than post game.

[DaemonReign]

@ LORD INQ
Thanks for showing me those alternative comp-packs. Certainly seems like a nicer system compared to ETC I'll certainly agree with that. And seemingly made by Swedes too!

About Daemons in 7th.. I've seen this discussion becoming circular. It always starts like this: Somebody brings up Ard Boyz Finals, then someone else comes along with some more statistics presenting how Daemons got 'dethroned' a long time before 8th Ed hit the shelves, and around it goes.

So frankly I go by my own experience where. I don't know much about LM or Skaven to be honest, but Dark Elves did kick Daemonic butt in 7th as far as I am concerned.. Ironically, the playingfield only evened out there once I started playing 8th for some reason.

Matters not. Let's just agree to disagree on that one.

I think the imbalances of the 'current' Daemon Book is a little bit more manifold than you describe, but it's only nuance differences really so not worth arguing over either I guess. hehe

[Lord Inquisitor]

@ LORD INQ
Thanks for showing me those alternative comp-packs. Certainly seems like a nicer system compared to ETC I'll certainly agree with that. And seemingly made by Swedes too!

I like it. I think there are certainly some aspects I disagree with on details and I think some things are a little over comped (-240 is a bit excessive for Teclis with a decent Lore, as I said before he's not that hard to kill, on what planet is Greasus Goldtooth considered a more competitive choice than a level 4 slaughtermaster!?) but overall most power combinations are pretty well addressed and the nice thing about it is that it addresses spamming. One firebelly is reasonable, but put three in a unit and it isn't quite so reasonable anymore and the handicaps magnify appropriately.

I'll be attending a GT this autumn which will use this system. I'm looking forward to it, it presents a very interesting challenge to balance raw power and comp score.

[DaemonReign]

What I like the most about it is that (unlike ETC) it actually lets you do whatever the hell you so desire(!).
Punish my army all the way into the gutter and I can live with that, but tigh a knot around my wrists (of choice) and I'm just not onboard anymore.

[Mercules]

I like it. I think there are certainly some aspects I disagree with on details and I think some things are a little over comped (-240 is a bit excessive for Teclis with a decent Lore, as I said before he's not that hard to kill, on what planet is Greasus Goldtooth considered a more competitive choice than a level 4 slaughtermaster!?) but overall most power combinations are pretty well addressed and the nice thing about it is that it addresses spamming. One firebelly is reasonable, but put three in a unit and it isn't quite so reasonable anymore and the handicaps magnify appropriately.

I'll be attending a GT this autumn which will use this system. I'm looking forward to it, it presents a very interesting challenge to balance raw power and comp score.

I have to admit that I liked the layout of that as well. It encourages you to take things that are "non-optimal" like Yhettee because you can make a solid unit out of them for less Comp Points than you can an equal Warhammer Point value Maneaters. They don't have banners/Musicians and such, but they can still do damage. As it sstands, by normal Warhammer points, most the things that Yhetee can do the Maneaters with Swiftstride and +1 Movement banner can do just as well. At that point you are bringing Yhetee only for the Magic Attacks and probably not for that.

[The Low King]

I don't disagree. I'm not the world's biggest fan of ETC restrictions for the same reason.

Have you seen this comp package, for example?
http://swfbr.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4494
Click on the first link "Fantasy-Kompmallen".

In this case, a broad "handicap" system is applied to an initial value of 300 and you apply negatives from every unit. Here Kairos is allowed, but it's going to nuke your score by a massive -190. A beast of nurgle, on the other hand, is a negligible -3.

I like this system. While there are a number of entries I don't agree with, broadly speaking it achieves a relative score that's reasonable for any given list. It's nice in that it can allow all units but often cuts out spam of certain things or excessively large units. It's also assessed quarterly, so they can adjust the values based on experience at the GTs.

I like that comp, although i am offended that my list is apparantly a weak list....

[Urgat]

Wait. Someone actually thought the arachnarok spiderweb upgrade thing needed nerfing? Does anybody even take that?

[Lord Inquisitor]

Wait. Someone actually thought the arachnarok spiderweb upgrade thing needed nerfing? Does anybody even take that?

There are a few oddities but in this case, you only pay a bigger penalty for the spider shrine if you have 4 or more wizards, at which point it starts to act like a cut-rate mobile herd stone. Seems reasonable to me.

[Montegue]

Locally, the only comp we generally have bans all named characters and a couple of magic items (The tower, Book of Hoeth, and the Power Scroll).

It works very well for us. Some folks have talked about doing the ETC thing for a shift, but I don't think it will happen.