Flank and rear charge

[monkey10120]

I'm fairly new to Warhammer and after reading the rules I am not seeing a huge benefit to charge the flank or rear. Is it only +1 or 2 to combat result and only touching models get to attack and no supporting attacks?

I just thought it would have a bigger impact, ex. You charge the rear and their backs are turned so they should not be able to use shields, or a -1 ws because they were caught off guard. A rule like that would give me a bigger reason to flank.

But don't get me wrong, I'm super new and had not battled nearly enough to see how good flanking is. I still have a lot to learn.

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[Mercules]

You can only parry to the front. If you charge the flank or rear and have 2 ranks yourself you negate their rank bonus. So they get less attacks, can lose +3 CR from ranks, and you gain +1 to +2 CR. This can be a HUGE swing in CR. Unfortunately they are still Steadfast so unless you charge with two units they can simply reform and have you in their front next turn.

[shakedown47]

Flanks and rear charges, especially combined, are how zombies beat Chosen (it happened to me once, with my Chaos Lord in there to boot!) and how Skaven beat temple guard. It's how night goblins beat dwarves. If you can rear charge an enemy and negate their rank bonus, you've already got at least a +4 CR advantage (+1 charge, +2 rear, +1 or more for your own rank bonus.) Couple that with the charged unit not being able to make supporting attacks, and unless they are WoC or black guard they're going to have a hard time just breaking even on CR. Even an elite unit (chosen) versus a weedy unit (zombies) is only a few bad die rolls away from losing combat without being steadfast. Flank and rear charges aren't the end-all-be-all, obviously...you have to look at where your own units would end up assuming the enemy breaks, if you're just being baited, etc...but they are a critical tactic in many situations. If your opponent brought a Doombull/Minotaur deathstar you'd better find a way to set up a flank charge or you're in big trouble.

[monkey10120]

Thanks guys for the info that helped. I'm def going have reread the rules.

[GodlessM]

Also note that if a unit is engaged on any two fronts it cannot combat reform.

[vinush]

While we're on the subject of flank and rear charges, if I were to get into two flanks of my opponent's unit would I get +1 or +2 to my combat res? I can't see anywhere where it says only one flank bonus is gained like it used to.

THE \/ince

[GodlessM]

I believe all bonuses other than wounds and ranks are limited to one per combat round.

[hazmiter]

Flank and rear charges are a good way to hit big things, I try minimise those.... On me that is...... Not fun seeing a unit wiped out, and having 2 or even 3 over runs........ It does happen.

[Hell Storm]

Also note that if a unit is engaged on any two fronts it cannot combat reform.

This isn't true. You can reform to face the other opponent if you wish.

[hazmiter]

Nope, flanked and fronted, can't reform, found out yesterday. Only if your flanked by one unit, and not in combat on another facing can you reform.

[Hell Storm]

Where does it say that?

[GodlessM]

In the combat reform rules p55, "If a unit is engaged to more than one facing (say to the front and one flank), it cannot make combat reforms."

[Damocles8]

While we're on the subject of flank and rear charges, if I were to get into two flanks of my opponent's unit would I get +1 or +2 to my combat res? I can't see anywhere where it says only one flank bonus is gained like it used to.

THE \/ince

Godless was close, flank and rear bonuses are per unit being charged in the flank or rear, so if you charge two smaller units with a horde, and then flank both of those units, you would get +2 for flanks and +4 for rear if you had units in those flanks. But that is with multiple combatants, and is a fairly rare occurence.

[GodlessM]

Yup, I just assumed that he was refering to a simple case of one enemy, albeit I shouldn't have assumed anything.

[monkey10120]

Also about rear charges. Say you charged a unit in the front and back and killed a few models but the unit won combat or did not flee. After combat is over and you remove the models from the unit there is a gap between the unit and the rear chargers. Would you have to charge again or just move the rear charges up so they stay in combat? Hope I was clear enough lol

[GodlessM]

You push the unit in.