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Thread: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

  1. #1
    Brother Sergeant Brewmaster_D's Avatar
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    2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Everything but the Kitchen Sink

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543753.jpg

    My store has been gradually shifting to the 2200 point format (yeah, I know...), so I gave my recently modified 2200 point list a whirl.

    The Coven of Light

    Archmage, Dragonhorn, Ring of Corin, Level 4 (Lore of Light)
    Mage, Level 2, Seerstaff (Pha's, Banishment)
    Mage, Level 1, Annullian Crystal (Lore of Light)

    30 x Archers, Musician, Standard, Banner of Discipline
    17 x Archers, Musician

    28 x White Lions, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Gem of Courage
    12 x Swordmasters, Standard, Standard of Balance
    12 x Swordmasters, Standard, Musician, Gleaming Pennant

    2 x Great Eagles

    Orcs & Goblins

    Goblin Warboss, Dragonhelm, Great Weapon (some other stuff?)
    Goblin Great Shaman
    Goblin Big Boss, BSB, Armour of Silvered Steel
    Night Goblin Shaman
    Savage Orc Shaman, Lucky Shrunken Head

    48 x Night Goblins, Full Command, Netters, 1 x Fanatic
    20 x Night Goblins, Bows, Musician
    20 x Savage Orcs, Biguns, AHW, Full Command

    3 x Wolf Chariots
    3 x Wolf Chariots
    3 x Wolf Chariots

    3 x Spear Chuckas

    Mangler Squig
    Snotling Pump Wagon, Exploding Spores
    2 x Doom Divers
    2 x Rock Lobbas

    Spells were as follows:

    Archmage: Shem's, Net, Banishment, Timewarp
    Mage: Pha's Protection

    Goblin Great Shaman - Vindictive Glare, Itchy Nuisance, Nightshroud, Curse o' da Bad Moon
    Night Goblin Shaman - Gork'll Fix it
    Savage Orc Shaman - Foot of Gork

    Deployment

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543745.jpg

    With so much artillery on the field, I knew I'd have to stay efficient with Pha's, so I kept my formation reasonably tight. The eagles had lots of potential roles in this matchup, but with the doom divers and spear chuckas I knew they'd be priority #1. Eagles and archers were the first ones down, and his bowmen committed early to taking that building, with a unit of chariots going down over there as well. This solidified in my mind that I was going to refuse that flank and focus on the East.

    We roll off, and I win first turn.

    Turn 1, High Elves

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543735.jpg

    Not much movement yet. One eagle moves up to a spot to draw out his fanatics if he moves forward with the goblins, and the Lions come around just a touch to compensate for his Westward deployment bias.

    Magic is 9 v 4 - I start with a 4D6 Banishment on his Eastern Chariots from my level 2, and he fails to dispel it with 4D6 of his own. 7 hits, 6 wounds and the remaining chariot fails its panic check and flees. I throw 4D6 at a bubbled Pha's from the level 2, and he hasn't got an answer for it (Seems my local store meta is to not take a scroll?? Wierd). I finish with a final D6 Pha's on the archers in the woods.

    The archer horde shooting goes on the night goblins, with the Eastern chariot threat removed and takes out 4 of them, and the other unit of archers puts a wound on his mangler.

    Turn 1, (mostly) Goblins

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543741.jpg

    His troops move up, with his goblins getting close enough to the eagle to launch the fanatic - I was expecting more to come out here. His fanatic rolls a 9 for distance and a 6 for hits, killing the eagle outright. Darn.

    Magic is 10 v 8 - He starts with a D6 + bonus dice at Gork'll fix it, but fails the cast with a natural roll of 1 on his non mushroom dice. He then throws 3D6 at a powered up vindictive glare, which I dispel with 2 (He rolled low), and I allow a subsequent itchy nuisance on the white lions, which he cast with D6. He finishes with Foot of Gork with 5D6, but fails to meet the casting value.

    He starts by targetting all his bolt shots at the eagle, but due to soft cover none are able to hit. His doom divers both target the eagle, and he redirects the first onto the swordmasters (I called the 4+ protection from pha's, remembering past matches where I came to realize that the 4+ applies even when they're not targeted specifically. I couldn't find it at the time, but for those interested it's very clearly stated in the FAQ for the main rulebook). He scores maximum hits with this as well, taking out 6 swordmasters. His second doom diver targets the eagle but scatters on to the archers, killing two, and the two rock lobber shots also target the eagle, with one landing home and killing it.

    High Elves, Turn 2

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543742.jpg

    With a ton of points up for grabs in the goblin unit, and a billion impact hits moving up on my West, I decide to get a bit more aggressive in the East. The lions and pennant swordmasters move up to threaten his leadership, and I get the Standard of Balance swordmasters in a position to aid in the fight should the savages move up to protect the goblins.

    Magic is 12 v 6 - I start with a 3D6 net on his great shaman's unit and roll huge (20 total). He tosses all 6 of his dice to be sure of getting rid of it. I follow it up with a 3D6 Timewarp on the lions to all but guarantee an assault on the bunker next turn, a 2D6 Pha's protection on the archers in the forest which fails, and finally a 4D6 Pha's bubble to protect all of my elites.

    In shooting, I don't want to waste 30 shots on a single fanatic, so instead work on whittling away at the bunker again - 5 wounds result from the volley. The archers in the woods manage another wound on the mangler, and there's no combat so we move to his turn

    Goblins, Turn 2

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543746.jpg

    His night goblin bowmen squabble this turn.

    He declares a charge with his middle Wolf Chariots on my archers, needing a roll of 10 to make it, but fails.

    He then moves his compulsary stuff - His fanatic manages to roll the small arc needed to his my dwindling unit of swordmasters, as well as the above average distance. It plows through them, and does 5 hits, 4 wounds. They are down to 2 models. Mangler makes it to the edge of the forest, and his pump wagon pumps harder this turn to get to a good spot to threaten the action between the combat blocks.

    Magic is 6 v 5 - He starts with a 3D6 itchy nuisance on my white Lions, which I dispel with 3. He then throws D6 plus an extra one at Gork'll Fix It on my archers, but gets poisoned by his mushroom, failing the spell. He finishes with a vindictive glare at the same unit, which I dispel with 2.

    Shooting sees him misfire with one of his doom divers and lose the other and a stone thrower shot to pha's protection (shooting at the lions). He puts one rock lobba shot on the archers in the forest, killing 4 of them, and he misses with his spear shots.

    High Elves, Turn 3

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543744.jpg

    I start the turn by declaring two charges - The White Lions into the goblins, and the remaining 2 swordmasters into the pump wagon. The lions need a 5 to make it in, and true to form, right when it counts they roll snakeyes. The swordmasters, however, have better luck.

    With remaining moves, I reform the archers in the woods to a more compact formation facing the incoming chariots.

    Magic is another 12 v 6 phase - I start with a 2D6 shem's on his mangler, which he allows. I score 5 hits, and manage to take it out. I know at this point that I need to draw out some dispel dice, so I do something a little unconventional with the ring - I use 2D6 to cast it on his Orc unit, knowing he won't want to give up the shrunken head. It works, and he uses 2D6 to dispel it. I follow it up with a 4D6 banishment on his Eastern Chariots, and he allows it. I roll huge for hits, and wipe the unit out. He passes his panic test on the other unit.

    I then work to protect my investment in the East - I need those lions to get in to that bunker with enough hitting power to take it out, so I start with a pha's with 2D6, which he dispels, then a second Pha's with 2D6 which goes off.

    My archers in the woods manage a wound on the chariots, and my horde of archers takes out two of the Savage Orcs.

    In combat, the two swordmasters roll like champions and take out the pump wagon, and instead of overrunning into the side of the savages (certain death), I reform them in such a way that their front is parallel with the edge of his field of vision, making them unchargeable next turn by the savages.

    Goblins, Turn 3

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543748.jpg

    He declares a charge with both units of chariots, the one in the East on my White Lions, and the one in the West versus my Archers in the woods. My lions hold and the archers stand and shoot - it's another long charge. Both the chariots fail their charges (the eastern one even had a great chance to get in), and my archers put a wound on the Western ones.

    Magic is 2 v 3 - He starts with a 2D6(D6 plus mushroom) gork'll fix it, but again fails the natural roll. He then throws D6 at vindictive glare, which I dispel.

    Shooting sees him devote his spear chucka shots to taking out the swordmasters with 2 remaining. He manages one hit, but fails to wound. His doom diver, however, has better luck, wiping the unit out. He starts with his first stone thrower on the Lions, but it misfires and explodes. The second one makes it through pha's and scores a direct hit, killing 4 of the lions. The final doom diver shot is taken out by Pha's.

    No combat means it's my turn!

    High Elves, Turn 4

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/544036.jpg

    I start by declaring a charge with the White Lions on the chariot beside the goblins - he's all but forced to flee, with the risk of holding being getting a unit of white lions on the flank of his bunker. I then redirect the lions into his bunker, and after some pause he holds; the other swordmasters are close enough that they could potentially declare a charge and flee him off the board.

    The swordmasters move up to challenge the savages - if the goblins hold, and the savages charge the lions flank, they'll in turn get charged by the swordmasters, and if they charge the swordmasters directly... well... then they'd charged swordmasters :P

    Magic is 10 v 4 - I start with a 3D6 Net of Amyntok on his bunker, which he dispels with all 4 of his dice. I then put a 2D6 pha's on his unit, and a 3D6 pha's (from the level 1) on the unit. I finish with a banishment attempt on the savages from my archmage, but don't make the 10+ needed.

    Shooting sees me put another wound on the goblin chariots with the archers in the woods, and 4 more casualties on the savages.

    In combat, I direct every lion attack I can onto his characters, knowing the importance of character leadership in a goblin based army. I take out all three (general, BSB and Great Shaman), and a handful of goblins. They kill a couple lions in return and are testing on steadfast. However, their low leadership prevents them from holding, and they flee. The lions pursue, catch them, and roll high enough to catch the chariot as well and take a reform. It was getting late at this point, so we both agreed that we were going to play one more full turn after this (ie. Turn 5), so with this in mind, I probably should have reformed to take out the rock lobba and doom diver.

    Goblins, Turn 4

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543749.jpg

    He's gotta make something happen at this point, so he charges the swordmasters in front of him with his remaining Savages (16 left now). His chariots also charge the archers in the forest, who flee and get away.

    Magic is 4 v 6, with me dispelling all of his spells.

    Shooting sees him put 4 wounds on my archers (not shown), and one of his doom divers misfire, unable to fire this turn.

    In combat, the swordmasters do 10 wounds to the savages, but he rolls incredibly for his saves; only 4 savages die! In return, he wipes out 9 swordmasters, who flee and are overrun. In this combat, he positioned his mages out of combat.

    High Elves, Turn 5

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543750.jpg

    Since it's the last turn, I go for the long charge with the white lions on the savages (needed boxcars), but as expected they fail.

    Magic comes in at 8 v 3. I start with a 4D6 banishment on the savages from my archmage, which he allows. I roll only 5 hits, but it results in 5 wounds. I then throw the second 4D6 at banishment on the same unit with my level 2, which he attempts to dispel but fails. Low hits again leaves 4 savages alive, plus characters.

    I then direct all of my shots at the unit, and the ensuing volley hitting on 3's wipes the unit out to a man.

    Goblins, Turn 5

    http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/543751.jpg

    His wolf chariots charge the recently rallied archers, and make the long charge but fail a difficult terrain test. The ensuing wound forces a panic test, which he fails. We play out the turn to see if he can panic either of my units, and he chooses to focus on the coven bunker, but they hold.

    Massacre for the Coven of Light!

    After battle thoughts

    Well I don't know about you guys, but I feel like this was a great game versus a great opponent. This was one of those games where I looked at the table before the beginning asking myself "how can I possibly win this one?"

    A few things that were critical this game:

    1. Balancing between offense and defense. Pha's absorbed a huge number of shots this game, so it was necessary to stay balanced between keeping the shields up and taking out high priority targets like the impact hit generating troops
    2. I feel that I'm getting much more comfortable with the situation of keeping the bunker safe and reacting to incoming threats. When I transitioned to all archer core, this was one of the hardest things for me. Formerly I had a nice beefy unit of spears to keep my mages out of harm's way, and now I'm one bad move away from getting rolled. I've learned some hard lessons, and am getting much more comfortable with it.
    3. Using the Ring of Corin defensively is something I might explore a bit more in the future - in a situation where there isn't an item that I *need* to get rid of, I may start thinking about it as a way to draw out 2 dispel dice. In turn 3, I needed something that could draw out some dispel dice before I cast my important spells, and the ring did just that.

    Hope you enjoyed reading, and as always comments or criticism is more than welcome!

    D
    Last edited by Brewmaster_D; 13-05-2012 at 02:38.
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  2. #2
    Chaplain Solonor's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Hi Brewmaster_D,

    Congratulations for a fantastic report, i've been following your coven's list in ulthuan.net (alongside other interesting HE lists like Curu's Dragon list and Furions archer core Shadow/High magic Synergy lists) but i think your list embodies the HE feel of super skilled elite forces with help from enhancing and "pure" light magic. Im currently trying to build a Coven of Light list, but for now i only play with 1000-1500 pts and at that point level its difficult to build an effective Coven list.

    I have just a small question regarding Pah's - Since you use it quite often i would like to know the psychological effect Pha's can have regarding warmachines. do your opponents play safe and tend to ignore the unit(s) so they dont risk the 4+ roll and target other things, or they usually risk a 4+ fail. i know it depends on the various factors (which units have pha's, your opponent experience, available targets etc.) i just want to know, since you use it quite often, if there are times you know your opponents warmachines choose to ignore a unit with Pha's so they dont risk failure.
    There are no perfect people in this world, just perfect intentions...

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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Nice rep. Do you always win on just post your wins lol.

  4. #4
    Commander thrawn's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    nice report. i like your coven of light army!
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    Chapter Master Djekar's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Brewmaster - thanks for another great report.

    I think that you have scaled the Coven down pretty well to 2200 points. I'm only a little worried about your Banishment strength with the loss of a wizard - if I recall, banishment is one of the only answers you have for big nasties, and S6 vs S7 seems a big jump.

    I liked your play with the Ring to draw out dispel dice - I wonder what he was worried about keeping so bad that he bothered dispelling. It's interesting to see that you didn't think it was worth saving while he was so concerned that he threw 3 dice at it to stop it from going off. I like to consider the psychological factor though, so maybe I'm just being strange.

    Lastly, I - like Solonor, am interested in how Pha's effects your opponents choices - do they risk the 4+ or do they choose another target? I'm sure that it depends on how many of your units are Pha's-ed, but generally speaking what do opponents do?
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    So you can try to avoid it, but it can just FORCE ITSELF UPON YOU like an overly ambitious teenage lover.

    Then once it's done wrecking you and leaving you in a pile, it can reform, cast the spell again and move on, like an unstoppable serial sex offender..

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    Tactical Ninja Malorian's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Do you guys roll for missions?
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    Brother Sergeant Brewmaster_D's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Hey Guys!

    Thanks for the replies. Comments and feedback are always appreciated!

    @Solonor & Djekar - I'd say that across the board, regardless of opponent's skill level, if they're presented with the opportunity to shoot at a high priority target with pha's vs. a lower priority target without, they'll shoot the unit without pha's 95% of the time. Statistically it only eats 50% of the shots, but it's the risk that it could eat an entire round of shooting that influences their decisions. With the ability to have the spell effect everyone within a 12" bubble, I find you can successfully channel enemy shooting where you want it to go.

    Djekar - Yeah, I was worried about dropping the strength too, but I found that with a 2200 point list with 4 mages, I really was cutting too deeply into the amount of boots on the field. I went to a tournament with S7 banishment, and I almost always lamented the loss of the additional rank and file unit before I celebrated the additional point of strength on Banishment. S6 is still *very* scary, but I certainly wouldn't even entertain the idea of dropping lower if I was trying to create ranged threat.

    Regarding the ring use, I find that most armies have an item that they attribute too much value to. For Orcs & Goblins, it's usually that shrunken head :P On a unit of 40 Savages, I'd prioritize much higher actually getting the ring off on them, but 20 strong leaves them pretty manageable, even with the 5+ ward.

    @Methios - Sure do Check out the blog in my sig for some spectacular losses.

    @Malorian - Most people in my area don't like the majority of the scenarios in the book, so they tend to shy away from them. Battle line ends up being the default because it's a situation where the match is completely even, without extraneous factors. Having said that, I'm up for anything, should the opportunity arise!

    Thanks again guys!

    D
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    Tactical Ninja Malorian's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewmaster_D View Post
    @Malorian - Most people in my area don't like the majority of the scenarios in the book, so they tend to shy away from them. Battle line ends up being the default because it's a situation where the match is completely even, without extraneous factors. Having said that, I'm up for anything, should the opportunity arise!
    Given your list, they may want to give it a try...
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    Brother Sergeant Brewmaster_D's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Hey Malorian,

    Any particular scenario you think would give me trouble? Blood and Glory is an obvious one, but still not impossible given how tough it is to get my standards. Some even seem to give me an advantage, like battle for the pass, a notoriously "gunline friendly" map.

    I'll try to line my next game up with whichever scenario you have in mind.

    D
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    Brother Sergeant BertusB's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Hi mate, great report! I really enjoyed reading it I really like it when people use Battle Chronicler too, it just makes the game so much easier to follow, and better to imagine how things went down. I do have a question though. I am not very familiar with the abilities of High Elves concerning generating extra Power Dice, but it looks like you had a pretty good magic phase every turn. Double the dice your opponent had, most of the time, whereas his magic phases were really poor. Since you play a list that focuses on Lore of Light and have to decide between 8(!) spells every phase, it seems like you really need powerful magic phases for this list to fully come into its own.
    How do you think this game would have played out if the PD and DD generating rolls would have been switched around with your opponent's magic phase? And would he have benefited greatly from a Dispell Scroll? I mean, with all the magic power you have, one spell more or less doesn't really bring that much to the table... I'm curious to hear what you think.

    Keep up the good work!

    Cheers,
    BertusB

  11. #11
    Chaplain Solonor's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Well Brewmaster is using the strengths of an HE magic phase (besides the obvious Book of Hoeth Archamge or the overpowered Teclis) with banner of sorcery High Elves can make sure that even in a bad magic phase they have more 2 or 3 power dice then the opponents, in defence the annulian crystal and the natural +1 to dispel also help alot to even out the pools. Besides a Covens list uses many mages which increase the chance of channeling, and an HE Coven list can threaten you with 2 st 7(6) banishments per turn, making the enemy dispel options more crucial. Also the use of ring of corin defensively was a good idea. Of course there are stil bad matchups to this List, Dwarfs and Old empire could(can) generate enough dispel dice to overcome the effects of the banner of sorcery, and dark elves and death magic casters can generate enough power dice to overpower HE dispel pool.
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  12. #12
    Brother Sergeant BertusB's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Solonor View Post
    ...High Elves can make sure that even in a bad magic phase they have more 2 or 3 power dice then the opponents...
    An excellent point, but even after you subtract the 2 to 3 extra PD from each HE magic phase, he still comes out very much on top. Like I said, you are very right with magical offense capabilities of this list in general games, but I just had a feeling that in this game the dice rolls for the PD generation were on Brewmasters side. Which brings me back to my original question.

    How do you (Brewmaster OR Solonor in this case ) think that this match would have played out in the hypothetical case that the PD generation for HE turn 1 would be switched with that for O&G turn 1, and so on. Just curious to see what major tactical decisions would have been altered in a worst case scenario.

    Cheers,
    BertusB

  13. #13
    Tactical Ninja Malorian's Avatar
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    Re: 2200 pts Coven of Light High Elves vs Artillery Heavy Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewmaster_D View Post
    Hey Malorian,

    Any particular scenario you think would give me trouble? Blood and Glory is an obvious one, but still not impossible given how tough it is to get my standards. Some even seem to give me an advantage, like battle for the pass, a notoriously "gunline friendly" map.

    I'll try to line my next game up with whichever scenario you have in mind.

    D
    Watchtower would give you a lot of problems.

    Blood and glory is actually a good one for you since you can hide your break points in your tower.
    Last edited by Malorian; 24-05-2012 at 14:08.
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