Most difficult / unbalanced lists to beat with a balanced list (POLL)

[thelonewarrior]

Ok so Ive been having a debate for a while about the most unbalanced list or hard to beat list when you are using a balanced list.

What I mean is, your taking a balanced list and going up against an opponent (closed lists, at random) if you were to come up against an army, straight away which of the armies would be the one that you would expect a hefty, nasty build that you couldnt take down, even if they havnt unpacked their army yet?
Which is the one you fear the most in facing, knowing that a balanced list (no talioring) would have a lot of trouble facing

Im talking about which armies you think in general are not balanced or in 9 out of 10 games painfully difficult to defeat
Ill give a few examples

Ogres
Can make a mean deathstar, tough anyway but a bit of weakness to mass shooting can take a few numbers down and help out

Warriors of chaos
They have an insane core unit, at 17pts with 3-4attacks and halberds, its not even funny to face them

Empire
Gunlines, not so much seen now with the new rules, but still a mean punch

Dwarves
Much of the same as empire

Vampire Counts
Can raise units and tarpit for all eternity, but then theres always the general, once hes gone its all over but I know just how unkillable the vampire lords can become

High Elves
Great magic, they are always going to strike first even with great weapons, and re roll to hit

Wood elves
Not really worth a mention, I think everyone knows they cant do much in 8th edition

Dark Elves
A couple of nasty lord builds, and everyone knows Hydras are cheap

Skaven
Do I really need to say it? Warpstone war machine spamming

Bretonia
Not as bad as many think in 8th edition, they can still field some mean hitting lists

Beastmen
Ive not seen an cheesy lists from personal experience, so im not really sure what to say about them

Daemons of chaos
From what ive seen and faced in their armies, they are tough in a lot of ways. But ive not seen any unbeatable lists

Lizardmen
Ive not seen them in action, but ive heard of the 'slann' build that is apparently extremely hard to defeat

Orcs and goblins
Ive faced down those fanatics, and they are not that difficult to lure out with units such as eagles or harpies, meaning they wont have their full potential used upon you, apart from that ive not seen many hard to beat lists

Tomb kings
Ive not faced them (pretty much I think they are the only army ive never played against) but ive seen a few battle reports with a couple of nasty builds


As it only allows me to have 10 in the poll, ive have left out the ones which I dont think should be included but please feel free to leave a comment if you think another army will be the one your voting for

[tmarichards]

Wood elves
Not really worth a mention, I think everyone knows they cant do much in 8th edition

Not even close to true I am afraid.

[thelonewarrior]

Ok fair enough, its just my personal experience with them ive not seen them do much.....
Would you like me to count that as a vote for wood elves?

[The Low King]

You appear to be missing a few on the poll

[thelonewarrior]

Yes the poll only allows 10 options, so if you would like to vote for another army I will count a vote for them if you leave it in your post

[Sexiest_hero]

Although i voted WoC chosen star. Daemons bloodletter horde get a top mention.

[brother_maynard]

Not even close to true I am afraid.

WE are actually one of my least favorite tournament draws. against a skilled opponent, it means that i pretty much auto-lose my greater daemon (i usually run keeper or GUO) and all my chaff, making it a matter of closing the gap the whole game.

back to the OT of most difficult build to beat, the ogre net list is a good one. real tough if you don't incorporate the tools to handle the fatties.

[The Low King]

I voted Dark elves. But Daemons are about on the same level for me.

Dark elves its because they seem to be overwelm my magic defence (dwarfs here) and outfight me in combat....

Daemons...ive just being playing a very competative Daemon player recently, Horror Deathstars, LD bomb...just lots of stuff i struggled to deal with :|

[w3rm]

Dark Elves or lizards.

If you rely on magic at all, slann WILL ruin your day. If you're not dwarfs or high elves, slann WILL have a crazy magic phase, which you can do little to stop.

Dark Elves have the unkillable lord and hydras. Also really gay magic, almost guaranteeing IF every turn for at least one spell.

[Leogun_91]

I go by each of my armies:
O&G: Daemons I guess, but I don't fear those that much either, a fairly easy access to mobile assaults against my leadership is quite annoying though so the daemons do get the first spot.
WoC: Empire, guns make warriors sad and although his infantry can't stand up against mine he gets pistolliers for that price (almost) and his guns are capable of taking out my very expensive models.
Dwarfs: My first army, haven't used it for many, many years, as a novice it has an MSU build and won't have much of a shot against anything.
Skaven: Dwarfs, relying on my Broodhorror as a hammer, guns become quite scary and I need the leadership he offers. My big units will still struggle against the sturdy lines arrayed against me and I wouldn't count too much on my gunteams or ratogres.

[Montegue]

Chosen Star. Nothing at all beats a 3+ ward save.

[Razakel]

Chosen Star. Nothing at all beats a 3+ ward save.

Has to be either this or Skaven (as a Dwarf player I voted Skaven), nothing can instil a more irrational reaction out of me than double HPA, stormbanner and slave buses in the same army.

[Jind_Singh]

With equal fear and hate I loathe to see:

Dark Elves
Daemons
Warriors of Chaos
Skaven

With tough builds and good players - I play a fair and balanced all Goblins army, which has a few tricks up it sleeve, but those three armies make me wince!

I have managed to defeat all the above four but it's because:

1) Had some luck
2) The players were not as good as me

That might sound big headed but it's the truth - when you bring a Honda Civic to a street race and the car next to you is a souped up Mustang you better pray that:

1) The other driver's foot slips on the clutch
2) He's only started driving a few months ago

Because equally skilled drivers and unequal cars does not equal race! Then it's all down to Lady Luck and I haven't known her to give me double 1s or 6s when I need them the most!!!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Empire
Gunlines, not so much seen now with the new rules, but still a mean punch

Not even close to true for the last couple of years and no punch to speak of.

[thelonewarrior]

Perhaps its just me then. I played a game not so long ago, using my vampire counts with a dark elf alliance against nothing but dwarf war machines (7 of them), crossbowmen and empire handgunners and 5 empire cannons

It was over by turn 3, dark elf magic was all we had going for us. The dark elf player was taken out quickly, in turn 1 his harpies and shades were shot to pieces and half his army cannoned. Turn 2 my ally conceded as all he had left was a single unit of black guard that was all but dead (his sorceress sniped by a cannon, having to take up to 13 look out sir tests per turn she failed to survive)

Turn 3 both armies then targetted my general. I passed the first 4 or 5 look out sir tests...... then survived a direct hit from a cannon with my ward save and the next one took the unit down leaving only my vampire, which then was targetted by every enemy model on the field

Maybe they were just good with judging cannon distances and shots, but most of their shots landed on something

He was literally torn apart.


It was something like 3000 Victory points to 100 victory points (the shades and sorceress managed to kill one of the cannons by rolling a very flukey roll of 6s for shooting to wound and spells)

Maybe its just personal experience with empire and dwarves, but I find against their gunlines they win a alot of the time.

[Artinam]

That must have been a very large game. I have faced an Empire Gunning Line once, and I beat it turn three when the charges hit home as nothing from him could do anything in close combat.

I think Dark Elves or Daemons will beat pretty much any balanced list.

[thelonewarrior]

I cant remember the exact points, it was for a mini tournement kinda thing and both sides got 500pts extra to spend (no restrictions to normal lists)

Empire and dwarves took extra cannons, so to be fair it probably wasnt a fair game anyway.

[snyggejygge]

Skaven has been the worst matchup for my WoC, Beasts & VC. I admit I haven't faced that many armies under 8:th edition (Lizards, VC, TK, Bretonnia, Ogres, WE & skaven), & while Lizards & Ogres have been tough opponents, skaven double a-bomb with loads of slaves & a gunline has been the toughest opponents for my normal lists.

[Gradek]

I would have to say that WoC are only really bad when someone is using the FoTG/Shrine setup. The army when played without that build is definitely not a top 3-5 army (probably 6-7 though). This is yet another reason why I wish GW would "fix" broken things instead of waiting to put out whole new books. WoC don't need a new book, they just need FoTG nerfed/eliminated.

[Djekar]

Hrm, I'd have to say:

With Orcs - Lizardmen. They can chaff it up with me (and their chaff kills at range, the nerve!) and their combat blocks are solid. Even more solid when backed up by magic which I have a rough time stopping.

With Dark Elves - Ogres. They can contain the worst of my magic (threat of the Hellheart and Dispel Scroll), and their blocks are pretty resilient unless I'm getting magic off. Also, their quick movement gives me less chances to shuffle things to their "proper", (i.e. advantageous for me) positions. Skaven and WoC are pretty close too though.