Chaos Dwarfs Tactica 8th Edition

[thrawn]

So i loticed there is no chaos dwarf tactica so i would like to start one.

firstly, to be clear, i am talking about the tamurkhan list (legion of asgor).

i have played three games thus far, so i wil list what i have found so far.

sorcerer prophet - mandatory, as his ld 10 is invaluable and can upgrade to lvl 4 mage. unfortunately he is over priced. because he can fight better than most mages and can take armour, he is very pricey, however, because he's your general and your lvl 4 mage you don't want to get him into combat. so your basically paying for his fighting prowess that you should not be using. however, it is handy that he can take some armour and can somewhat find, just in case you make a mistake and your opponent sneaks some fast cav. or some fliers past you, your sorcerer prophet can still defend himself. however, i still think it's a big points dump that does not often pay for itself.

daemonsmiths - a very handy, very handy lvl 2 mage. not only can he cast some spells, he's not a bad fighter, comes standard with a magic weapon, and, DATATA - is also an engineer! yes sir, i think these guys are a bargain!

castellans - your standard hero that can be upgraded to a bsb plus . . . he's stubborn! excellent hero choice, but again very expensive, much more then a standard hero with similiar stats. again he's a good buy because he's stubborn, but as you may have noticed by this point, with everything being expensive, you run out of points super fast.

tuar'ruk - haven't used him yet, please feel free to contribute

khan - mandatory. with no skirmishers, no flying units, no scouts, your only redirectors/war machine killers. i try to take 2 minimum, try to take 4 if i can.

infernal guard - well priced (i'm not saying their cheap, just for what you get they're priced right). madatory you take a minimum one unit of 30, 5 across and 6 deep. they can take it on the chin and will dish it back out.

the weapon options for these guys deserves it's own line. i am only going to say that they are over priced. i have only used the fire glaives, and i am so far disappointed. too expensive unit to stand back and shoot, but not as good as the base infernal guard in combat, yet 5 points more?!?!? not worth it.

hobgoblins - again mandatory. incase your not keeping track, everything in this army is expensive. NOT OVERPRICED, just really elite and thus expensive. that being the case you need some cheap fodder. you just need them. unfortunately, again they are more points then just regular goblins, they are a bit better, but again your paying for what your getting.

death shriekers - a good warmachine. just as good as the old empire mortar for the same points. one of the few good deals in the list.

magma cannon - another good warmachine. flame cannon with a 24" range. another one of the few good buys in this list.

k'daai fireburners - love the models so i use them. they are not that great. it's awesome that everyone in base combat takes a S4 hit before they even get to attack, so they are good against low armour save hordes (humans, orcs, elves) but with they're instability they die fast. get them into combat before they burn themselves to death. with that being said, if your tactic is to stand back and shoot, these are not the guys to use.

centaur renders - haven't used them yet, if you have please free to comment.

iron daemon - haven't used it yet. looks good on paper, but according to most on chaos-dwarfs online, difficult to use unit.

rare options:

k'daai destroyer - used it twice, it is really good, but not invincible. well worth the points it costs. get it into combat, with the auto S4 hits, on average 8 attacks per turn, stomps and a 4+ ward, it's great! the -1 to wound is a little bit much though, apparently according to FAQs you need minimum S5 to even wound it! i always tell my opponent that if that's the case, i don't mind using 6s to wound like what the rule book says.

hobgoblin wolf riders - haven't used them yet, as without chaos dwarfs that can keep up with them they will suffer from animosity, so i think the khan is a much better buy.

hellcannon - straight from chaos warrior list. you should know what it does. good unit, good buy.

dread quake mortar - haven't used it yet. it basically shoots as good as the hellcannon, but the hellcannon can at least defend itself, this cannot.

chaos seige giant - a giant with a 3+ armour save against shooting, but too many points.



so the general idea is this. the units are good, and they are worth the points, but because everything has extra rules/abilities, they are more points. so the army is super elite and very expensive. it's scary because your opponent will have so many more units/models then you. don't be scared, when your guys work, they work amazing. tough, good armour, reliabe, and hard hitting.

magic items:

don't have time to go thru them all, however, they are accordingly priced, except of course the 100 point magic item, what a waste! everything else is great. how do i know? almost every chaos dwarf list i've seen online uses them.

lore of hashut:

good!

signature spell: usefull, all your units hate your opponent? yes please.

spell one: hard hitting, short range though!

spell six (yes i missed some, but i'm in a rush, will finish tomorrow): amazing if you get it off! nothing like telling your opponent your putting the large template on his unit and they all suffer a S6 hit! did that a couple of weeks ago to an orc player, killed about 20 black orcs! hahahaha!

please feel free to contribute. what works for you? what have you used?

[Dezmord]

Ah, finally someone started a CD tactica!

I haven't played that many games either, but I've already learned a few things:

infernal guard - well priced (i'm not saying their cheap, just for what you get they're priced right). madatory you take a minimum one unit of 30, 5 across and 6 deep. they can take it on the chin and will dish it back out.

the weapon options for these guys deserves it's own line. i am only going to say that they are over priced. i have only used the fire glaives, and i am so far disappointed. too expensive unit to stand back and shoot, but not as good as the base infernal guard in combat, yet 5 points more?!?!? not worth it.

I play with 23 of the standard Infernal Guard HW/Shield (that's the number - includng Command - I bought from Warhammer Forge). Bigger units are IMHO not needed as these guys are not about damage-output but they are way better in just surviving.
Infernal Guard with Blunderbusses worked better in dealing damage for me: stand-and-shoot + their good profile with HW/Shiled worked wonders in CC:

dread quake mortar - haven't used it yet. it basically shoots as good as the hellcannon, but the hellcannon can at least defend itself, this cannot.

Three CD + ogre fare quite well in CC. The dangerous terrain test is a very handy bonus on this unit.

[Eyrenthaal]

I managed to get one game in against high elves.. Lost miserably, mostly due to me failing the tactical part of the game.. It is actually very hard to Have so few models on the field. Im used to having à empire or o&g army against them and now i found myself outnumbered..

I had 6 renders and one taur'ruk in the game though and they were fantastic. They even managed to performed well despite My failures.. Really heavy unit.. It gives You the speed needed together with the wolf raiders..

The iron deamon is à steam tank without the drawbacks.. What Else can be Said?

Nice initiative with the tactica..

[Leonathion]

Nice! I can contribute with a question since I'm seriously concidering starting these guys.

I see a lot of e-lists uses big blocks of Hobs with bows. Have you found these useful too? Since the mainstay unit is very slow, would you suggest a sit-back and wait list (with lots of shooting) or an offensive list? Do offensive lists even work (your core can't really be offensive).

Cheers!

[MLP]

I have to dissagree with a lot of your points here to be honest.

Sorcerer-Prophet: Definitely not mandatory. I've seen many successful armies using only heroes even up to 2500 points. Also he is not overpriced, he is in my opinion the toughest Lord-Mage in the game and with his unique abilities and access to the Lore of Hashut he is priced about right.

Castellan: Not expensive for what he is. He's a very capable and tough combat hero and with his ability to make Infernal Guard Stubborn he is extremely reasonably priced. Consider the price of the Crown of Command and you may realise how cheap he is.

Khan: Certainly not mandatory. Although you are right he is a good redirector having more than two is probably not worth it.

Infernal Guard: I agree with most but you definitely don't need to take them in blocks of 30. Depending on the game size units of 10, 20 or 24 are commonly used in my armies and others I have seen. Also as you say about the weapon options are pricey but they can certainly be used effectively.

Hobgoblins: Again, not mandatory. Many lists I've seen don't use them. I would not say any model the cost of a Hobgoblin is expensive either. I find them most effective in units of 5x6 with hand weapon, shield and bows.

Deathshrieker: Much better than the Empire Mortar. It guides itself to the target, causes panic and with a Daemonsmith you get a reroll! Awesomely versatile unit.

K'daii Destroyer: The rules are -1 to wound and it was cleared up about not being able to wound it if you're S4 or under. Whatever the rulebook says Army Books take precedence.

Wolf Raiders: Completely different unit to the Khan. Although they do suffer like you said they can fill many roles a Khan can't, flank charging for instance.

Dreadquake: No way the same as the Hellcannon. Also it is the second most defendable war machine after the Hellcannon as it can have a Slave Ogre giving it 6 wounds and extra combat ability. Skirmishers wont take this unit out.

Siege Giant: I agree with you here and I have literally never even heard of one being used.

[White_13oy]

I have a quick question. If I have a blunderbuss unit, how many can fire if I have a unit 5x4?

[MLP]

Only 10 I'm afraid. Best use of Blunderbusses would be two ranks of between 10 and 15 to get the best bonuses with a few spare for casualties.

[White_13oy]

So I played my first game tonight with them. Only 1500pts. I had a 25 man Core Infernal Guard with Blunderbuss, Rolled 3 shots twice and was very effective, and when my opponent got into melee with a horde of frenzied Cosair I won combat purley because They couldn't kill me. I was Very impressed. Are the special Infernal Guard worth it? they seemed good, but expensive.

[Satan]

Subscribed.

How is everybody finding their K'daii Fireborn? What unit size works? How many models do you lost to T tests each game?

[thrawn]

Subscribed.

How is everybody finding their K'daii Fireborn? What unit size works? How many models do you lost to T tests each game?

surprisingly better then i thought despite they're 2 attacks. i try to put them 5 across if i'm facing hoards, amazing inflicting 10 S4 hits before anyone even gets to strike! also, with M6 and I4 they are pretty fast for monstrous infantry. however, they're T test ever turn is killer! i usually lose more to that per turn then to combat.

[GodlessM]

surprisingly better then i thought despite they're 2 attacks. i try to put them 5 across if i'm facing hoards, amazing inflicting 10 S4 hits before anyone even gets to strike! also, with M6 and I4 they are pretty fast for monstrous infantry. however, they're T test ever turn is killer! i usually lose more to that per turn then to combat.

I thought it is only models in base contact that suffered the hit, so that's only 5.

[thrawn]

I thought it is only models in base contact that suffered the hit, so that's only 5.

ya so, if i have 5 across and he has 10, then all 10 suffer a S4 hit, no? have i read the rules wrong? my understanding is all models in base contact.

[MLP]

@White_13oy: Personally I like the Ironsworn. They're a little more survivable than Infernals due to the higher WS and the extra strength really makes a difference. Not many infantry have WS5 S5 T4 3+ 6++ combat stats. They can take a charge better than any unit I've ever seen. They also work well as points denial, just make sure you protect them against magic.

@Satan: They are pretty good from what I've seen. Although you will lose one or two to T tests in a game unless you're lucky. I'd say 6 is the better unit size any more is not worth it and any less they will not be effective enough.

[mistrmoon]

Persolanny I find the fireborn completely useless. the big man on the other hand is amazing. as far as infernal guard go i find i dont need more then 30 ever and i never deploy them deep. with a bsb or another castellon they're proper stubborn, what do they care about steadfast. a properly geared up a castellon bsb is very hard to kill so im not to worried about him

I find that the prophet IS overpriced. although his cost works out for all the things he does you'll never make proper use of all 4 roles so youll rarely get your points out of him.

The biggest problem with the book is that there is a lot of 'option a and option b fill the same role for roughly the same points but option b is clearly superior'. the best examples of this are the giant and the destroyer. both big smashy monster, both rare both in the same ball park for points and yet no sane person will ever take a giant over the destroyer unless its for thematic reasons. same argument for the hellcannon and the quake mortor. one of these has one of the worst misfire tables in the game. the other doubles as an unbreakable terror causing monster. you decide which one is better.

[Lord Inquisitor]

I don't think sorcerer-prophets are overpriced at all. In fact they look damn cheap to me. You get a wizard lord with the stats equal of many combat lords with the all-important Ld10, a 4+ armour and the ability to take magic armour, a free magic item that doesn't eat into the allowance of about 25 point value and an engineer ability that's massively superior to an Empire engineer since you can re-roll scatter as well as artillery and you don't need to nominate the machine beforehand. For the points, a bargain.

Edit: and the way I've seen him used, he sits back with the artillery, providing his Ld bubble, his magic and his engineer skills all at the same time, with his stats there to protect him if anything does make it through the destroyer, the single hobgoblins and the artillery barrage. All of the attributes are useful.

[TsukeFox]

So has anyone made a list without the Destroyer?? Call me a hater but the Destroyer really just seems like a crutch.

[Veshnakar]

So has anyone made a list without the Destroyer?? Call me a hater but the Destroyer really just seems like a crutch.

It seems that way to me too, and I play them! For the points I rather prefer taking a bull/bale taurus for my Fire Sorcerer-Prophet or an Iron Daemon even though it's so easy to hold up w/chaff and can't do much if anything to monstrous infantry.

[TsukeFox]

It seems that way to me too, and I play them! For the points I rather prefer taking a bull/bale taurus for my Fire Sorcerer-Prophet or an Iron Daemon even though it's so easy to hold up w/chaff and can't do much if anything to monstrous infantry.

Have not tried a block of 5/6 bull centaurs for the points of the Destroyer?

[Shandowner]

As a Chaos dwarf player, the list is strong.
I would be hesitant to place it in the top 5 but certainly in the upper middle tier.

The Destroyer is a huge part of that equation. He is very Killy and very, very difficut to stop.
Other highlights of the list in the variety of Str 5 templates, and the Lore of Hashut.
The number 6 spell (flames of Azgorth), is probably one of the most devestating spells currently in play, as it acts as a sniper spell, templaye weapon and unit delete option all in one. Ash cloud is another must stop for the enemy.

Aside from Big magic, the destroyer and artillery, the chaos dwarf list, doesnt have too much a variety of troop type.
Their MI choices are ok (Bull centaurs being a roadblock, and Kdaii beiing useful vs tough 3 troops) and their infantry options are a bit bland,
(however, i have had remarkable success with the much-maligned Blunderbuss units)

All in all, happy with the list (as it will probably be the last one the CD get for 15 years)...

[bildo]

Ive played tonnes of games with chaos dwarfs. the things ive learnt(assuming its the 2400pts standard);

sorcerer prophets- these are mandatory. lvl4, healing potion,4+ward=done
bsb castallen- mask of furnace, cheap magic weapon.after your (annoyingly squishy) infernal champ dies, this is the guy taking the chalanges. he needs the magic weapon to help rid eths
khans-as discussed, great at killing warmachines, redirectors
deamon smiths-i only take 1, i keep him alone, at the back babysitting warmachines, hes ok to stand on his own. i find law of fire is best for him.also give him your dispell scroll
infernal guard-i take 28 with my prophet and bsb, never let me down
infernal guard with blunderbusses-i take 20, 10wide, have removed whole units, even a gut star was shifted, god bless flaming sword
hobgobs- i love them horde, 2hws, they love going on rampages. mine once took out 6 rat ogres followed by an ethereal black coach (it was a doubles game) just winning that fight through combat res
magma cannon- ive bought 1, use it, not vastly in love with it, it works fine, put the shot 6 inches infront of unit, roll arty dice, land on unit, burn lots.
hellcannon- meh, its ok
k'daai destroyer- i r love these. need 2 of them, can fit 2 in, but i would if i could. ive had 1 eat through whole armies
wolf riders-weak, but when used on the flank charge, ive actually had them do some good, cheap

the law of hashut- great, everything you could want, all power, no compromise, if its a 25+, its because its worth it, large super killy template o'dooom. hatred nice, ash storm can be really handy.