I was trying to figure out the meaning of place names or rivers in the Empire. Any German language speakers out there perhaps you can help in this?
Using the online dictionary I have discovered...
Altdorf = old village
Middenheim = mid? home (german)
Wissenland = wise-land
Aver = possessions/to-have
Tabac = tobacco/colour-of-tobacco (french)
Nordland = northland
Ostland = eastland
Reik = Extended/stretching (Dutch)
Drakwald = Dragon (Czech) Forest (German)
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I just thought that it was english people putting random german words together
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Yeah... it more that than anything else...Correct or pseudo German either because it sounded right in itself or to allude to some real-world historical name or location or other.
(I cringe every time they re-use the phrase "Sigmar Heldenhammer" as "Hammer of the Goblins"... it is "hero-hammer" (or, plural really, but still), why not use that?)
Well you may be right, much of it may be random words thrown together, nonetheless I like to think some names were intentional - Drakwald for example is pretty cool as it suggests that there were once dragons living there.
I was puzzled by Tabac at first, but just realised I read it wrong! Its the river Talabec and Talabecland. Tala is 'talk' in old norse, though since it doesn't translate in Dutch/German I suspect Talabec is just randomly made-up.
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Usually it is a misspelled pronounciation of a German word.
Wissenland => Wiesenland (German GW translation Whisenland) => pasture land
They always do funny translations of German words in German army books. Mordheim became French with Mortheim for example.
Reik => rijk (Dutch) and means rich or nation/empire, the German word Reich would mean empire or rich as well.
Only we (the Dutch) use the 'ij' character as far as I know, the German translation is better.
Hochland = high land
Middenland => Mittenland = nation in the middle (in Dutch it has the same translation and is properly written)
Anything ending in bad means there are wells nearby you can bathe in.
Anything ending in dorf means ...-village. Altdorf becomes old village and so on.
Anything ending in stadt means ...-city.
Any specific Names you want to know?
Last edited by Little Joe; 14-05-2012 at 21:46.
Iirc, Altdorf is also a real city, in the real world I meanOriginally Posted by Craze_b0i
You can cut the second half, there's no such color in french, tabac's tobacco and that's itTabac = tobacco/colour-of-tobacco (french)But yeah, it's Talabec, not tabac
Sorry, can't help beyond that, but I'll join if you start the same topic for Bretonnian names
Last edited by Urgat; 14-05-2012 at 21:53.
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Fauschlag, fist-strike
Drakwald, well Drak might mean dragon in czech but I'd bet my right eye that it comes from german Drache (swedish is drake which is even closer), and I belive there is a word 'drake' in english
Middenheim, middle-home, I guess
Anyway, my german sucks but as far as I can tell it sounds more like making english words look german and perhaps adding a real german world here and their. They probably do the same think with Bretonnia and french but as I don't really know any french I can't guess.
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It's a bit like that yeah. Sometimes it's sound (Couronne = Crown), sometimes you wonder how or why they picked it (L'Anguille = The Eel - don't forget the "The", it's the " L' "), and sometimes, it's randomized latinofrenglish (Louen LeonCouer, in English, that would give, her... Louen HaertLeon. Misspelling and inverted word order intended. I think leon exists in latin, but I'm not sure so i'll leave it at it.).
Last edited by Urgat; 14-05-2012 at 23:19.
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Some of them are just puns or obscure references. Middenheim, for instance, is the "midden city" - "midden" meaning "large pile of nightsoil". The Drakwald originated in a typo - someone was meant to type "Dark Forest" but wrote "Drak Forest" instead. Someone in the studio found it hilarious so it found its way into the finished product. Some of the villages around Wittgendorf reflect the frustration of the designer (Hackdorf, Braundorf, etc.) Some are lifted directly from real places (Altdorf, Marienburg). Some are mashups of other languages with German (Mordheim). I expect that "Reik" is a bastardisation of "Reich".
How about Talabac, Stir and Aver?
Well yes I never thought of it before but I guess the french would be Coeur de Lion, so as you say its a weird english-latin mash-up.
On a seperate note, I just noticed on the map in my Empire book that The Drakwald is labelled as Drakwald Forest. The text calls it Drakwald forest too, unlike the OnG book where it is simply referred to as The Drakwald.
Last edited by Craze_b0i; 15-05-2012 at 00:17.
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What you have to relaise it that german is a constructed langague, most of germanny spoke other langagues (or really broad dialects) until bismark united the country. For an example the north sea and baltic coast spoke platt (low german) which atleast in 1880 was considered the same language as dutch.I was trying to figure out the meaning of place names or rivers in the Empire. Any German language speakers out there perhaps you can help in this?
Using the online dictionary I have discovered...
Altdorf = old village
Middenheim = mid? home (german)
Wissenland = wise-land
Aver = possessions/to-have
Tabac = tobacco/colour-of-tobacco (french)
Nordland = northland
Ostland = eastland
Reik = Extended/stretching (Dutch)
Drakwald = Dragon (Czech) Forest (German)
Him is protogermanic for home or hall. Its used in all germanic languages ,German, swedish norweigan danish and so on.
Could be wong but i think wissen is "to know" rather than wise. For an example: Sie wissen, dass einige Ihrer Übersetzungen nicht ganz korrekt? = Did you know that some of your translations arent entirly correct? (though i would've written wissen sie rather than sie wissen).
Wissenland would be land of knowledge or land of awerness.
I have no idea what taala means but bec is Bäck in swedish which means small river. considrering the land is named after a river i'd say thats no mere coincidence.
Nordland (is correct) is a region in sweden norrland, the colours of nordland is blue and yellow right? no coincidence.
Ostland is correct.
Reik i dont know.
Drak, is the same as drake, dragon in swedish, male bird in english =P
I though they were two separate titles, not translation of each other.
As said, it Wisse is mostly likely a bastardisation of Wiese (meadow).
Wissenland is known for its meadows and pastures so the name fits.
Male birds are Known by a lot of things, Gander or Cock (snigger), Drakes are Male ducks (as well as a small, sometimes wingless Dragon) So maybe the Drakwald is just full of huge Carniverous ducks
Stir means the same in german as in english. I think it refers to that its a rapid river, doesnt really fit well with it being one of the great rivers, wide rivers are usually slow flowing.
Are you sure? Stir doesn't sound German at all to me...
Last edited by Arnizipal; 15-05-2012 at 09:47.
Vanhaldenschlosse means Vanhalden's keep. Schlosse sounds very recognisable as the german word for the Dutch 'slot', which in the context of a place like a fortress or castle, will more or less mean 'keep' in english.
Apparently there's a place in the Moot called 'sauerapfel'. Sour apple
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Fauschlag is probably a good example for what happens with a lot of the names. Either the writers don't know any better, or they think it's easier to pronounce if they omit a few letters (consonants mostly, as German uses a lot of these), as it would have to be Faustschlag.
Drak I think is fairly recognizable for a German speaker as a poetic form of Drache (dragon), a few years ago German game developers used it in the name of their game.
Have never heard, nor read it anywhere. Doesn't sound German to me neither.
Schloss is something akin to keep, where the final "e" comes from only the author knows.Vanhaldenschlosse means Vanhalden's keep. Schlosse sounds very recognisable as the german word for the Dutch 'slot', which in the context of a place like a fortress or castle, will more or less mean 'keep' in english.
Apparently there's a place in the Moot called 'sauerapfel'. Sour apple
Anyway relating to the OP, I'll try to go trough the provinces and city states and give translations/explanations where possible.
Altdorf- old village.
Averland- dunno, not aware of any particular meaning attached to Aver. The connection to possession is news to me.
Drakwald (former province)- the whole Dragon thing is emphasized by the German translators slightly changing the name to Drakenwald.
Hochland- Highland (and the most awesome province there is!
Middenheim- Midden is clearly meant to mean middle, as it lies close to the Middle Mountains (which in German are also translated as Middenberge).
Middenland- same here.
Mordheim- Mord means murder.
Nordland- Northland/Northern land.
Nuln- dunno, sounds a little like Nullen the plural to Null (zero, nil) but that doesn't make much sense.
Ostland- Eastland/Eastern land.
Ostermark- Oster also means east/eastern, a mark is part of a realm that is also a borderland in this case between the Empire and Kislev. Oster is also very reminiscent of Öster as in Österreich (Austria). The province is called Ostmark in GW's German publications, which I think isn't the greatest choice, concidering it was the name of Austria in the Third Reich.
Reikland- Reik as others stated is probably meant to mean Reich (realm, empire), and might be, although I doubt it, a tongue in cheek cacography, as the German "ch" is to the English what the English "th" is to the German.
Stirland- dunno.
Talabecland- supposedly (official fluff) a derivation from Taal, whose name sounds like Tal (valley) in German.
Talabheim- the same.
Wissenland- as mentioned probably intended as Wiese (pasture). Though Wissen does mean knowledge, doesn't sound like a natural German place name though.
Solland (former province)- Sol is the nordic name of the Germanic sun goddess Sunna, also latin, all of which mean Sun.
Hope that helps.
I was thinking since Aver is not German, it could be from the celtic 'Avon', meaning river. In Britain we have a lot of rivers called The Avon.
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"Midden" was derived from an archaeological term, as Graeme Davis and Rick Priestly were archaeologists before moving into games.
Have they actually stated that is where it came from? If not the name may simply be coincidence.
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