Necron Wraith's Hierarchy

[dex_911]

Hey guys,

Just a quick question for you all.
My Necron force incorporates a Hierarchy scheme in its colors.
So Warriors -> Immortals -> Lychguard -> Lords ...all have an increase in gold colors as they sit higher up the tree.

My question for you all is where do wraiths sit?

I know they patrol the tomb while the Necrons slumber - so in some cases that's a pretty important job! (More gold!).
However they also seem like mindless robots, just following commands which can also place them at the bottom of the pack, no more better than a mindless servitor.

Over to you guys..how important are the Wraiths and where do they sit in the hierarchy of things?

[Lothlanathorian]

I would place Wraiths right at the bottom with Tomb Spiders. They are more or less mindless drones.

[TheSaylesMan]

The Wraith as it was known before the new Codex has been phased out of 40k and replaced with Canoptek Wraiths. The are not modified Necrons. They are just constructs now. They are no more or less important than Scarabs or Spyders and do not fit into the ranks of Necrons anymore.

[Lionsprey]

What those guys said ^
they are about as high ranked a gun

[Lord Damocles]

The Canoptek Wraith is just a guardian/worker construct like Tomb Spyders, Scarabs, Builder Scarabs, and Tomb Stalkers - which probably puts them only slightly above automated defences in terms of hierarchy.


However, there is something of a question as to whether Canoptek Wraiths and just plain old Wraiths are one and the same.
The Spectral Harbringers (Wraiths) from the 'A Soney Sleep' adventure in the Deathwatch supplement The Emperor Protects look like the old Wraiths (pg.94), are reasonably speedy unlike Canoptek Wraiths (pg.94), and awake from sarcophagi (pg.84).
Dark Apostle (pgs.378-380) and Hellforged (pg.349) (both still in print) both also describe old style Wraiths.

Nothing in the 5th edition Codex: Necrons precludes old style wraiths still existing; and there are plenty of other units which aren't mentioned either (and the 'they have the same name!' problem is no greater than [Canoptek] Scarabs and Builder Scarabs sharing 'Scarab').

Old style Wraiths would probably be somewhere between Warriors and Immortals, with the former being the general populance of the Necrontyr, and the latter being amoungst the most favoured of the C'tan.

[NashTrickster]

When you say nothing in the 5th Ed Codex precludes old style Wraiths still existing, you forget a little something:

According to the new fluff, the only Necrons who would be ready to heavily modify their body is those who've given up on any hope to go back to a biological form in the future, members of the Nihilist Cult, otherwise known as the Destroyers... Thus, such Wraiths would be Destroyers with "unusual" mechanical ameliorations...

That means that if old-style-Wraiths, as far as looks are concerned, still existed, they'd nevertheless be quite different as far as background is concerned from "real" old-style-Wraiths.

And, since Destroyers are "put aside", rejected by the other Necrons, such Wraiths wouldn't have a place in the general hierarchy... However, they might be considered superior (or inferior) to "normal" Destroyers by Destroyer Lords. But since they're not mentionned at all in the Codex, that's impossible to know.

[Charistoph]

*Considers the effort to put those big guns on those tiny bodies.*

Not worth it, sadly.

[Lord Damocles]

That means that if old-style-Wraiths, as far as looks are concerned, still existed, they'd nevertheless be quite different as far as background is concerned from "real" old-style-Wraiths.

Given that the background for Wraiths previously was little more than 'phase shifting floaty dudes with knife hands', that really wouldn't matter all that much.

And, since Destroyers are "put aside", rejected by the other Necrons, such Wraiths wouldn't have a place in the general hierarchy... However, they might be considered superior (or inferior) to "normal" Destroyers by Destoryer Lords. But since they're not mentionned at all in the Codex, that's impossible to know.

Not all non-humanoid Necrons are [complete] outcasts. '...many destroyer Lords are outcasts and pariahs...' (Codex: Necrons (5th ed.), pg.31) so some clearly aren't outcasts.

Plus, there are at least two instances of non-humanoid Lords being in overall command of Necron forces (or at least the forces featured) - the Overlord from Hellforged, and the Undying One from the Word Bearers series, so some tombworlds/factions (etc.) clearly don't have such an aversion.
Szeres also illustartes that not all non-Destroyer Necrons adhere so strictly to the 'Keep off my legs, you monster!' mindset.

[baphomael]

To return to the OP question, my choice would be to leave the Canoptek stuff free from hierarchical markings, keeping them separate from the 'chain of command', since they are artificial machine servants rather than former flesh and blood people.

You could opt for a slightly different, or complimentary, colour for parts of your Canoptek stuff to tie them together, and perhaps use spot colours or secondary from your regular scheme to tie the entire army together.

[MajorWesJanson]

I'd paint the Spyders, Wraiths, and Scarabs to match the vehicles, as that is their closest equivalent.

[Xisor]

According to the new fluff, the only Necrons who would be ready to heavily modify their body is those who've given up on any hope to go back to a biological form in the future, members of the Nihilist Cult, otherwise known as the Destroyers... Thus, such Wraiths would be Destroyers with "unusual" mechanical ameliorations...

As you say, you forget a little something: let him shine some light on the matter for you.

[NashTrickster]

As you say, you forget a little something: let him shine some light on the matter for you.

Ever heard of the exception that confirms the rule? :P

And one could also argue that Crypteks aren't part of the general Necron population either...

[Xisor]

Ever heard of the exception that confirms the rule? :P

And one could also argue that Crypteks aren't part of the general Necron population either...

Well, yes, that's a fair argument.

Nevertheless, I'm not entirely sure it's one that needs to be made. The line of thinking still stands - Destroyers aren't the only body-deformers, but they're amongst the most extraordinary. It'd not surprise me in the slightest to see/conceive of 'Destroyer Courts' - Necron hosts which rival Titan legions.

But, more to the point, other deformers do exist, the canoptek strand is, as Lord Damocles suggests, just a branch of the 'high society'. Or rather, they're beyond being a branch, they're entirey subservient to whichever Crypteks are fulfilling 'Master Control'-liaison duties! To put it another way: the old style wraiths could well be another branch of the Destroyer 'cult'. Or another form of insanity? Crypteks take a step away from the normal mould, but nevertheless remain 'pure' in terms of being (ostensibly) 'tradition-abiding citizens'. (Unlike Destroyer cultists and the Flaying-infected. And canoptek robotrons!)

I'm happy with them (old wraiths) being an extension of the Destroyer cult, whose proper name/manner-of-reference I forget.

[Iron_Lord]

Ever heard of the exception that confirms the rule? :P

The phrase is "the exception that proves the rule"

And "proves" in this case refers to an old use of the word, meaning "tests"

So it's basically "the exception that tests the rule" - demonstrating that the rule is not completely true.

But the phrase has mutated somewhat in use so people use it to mean basically the opposite of its literal meaning.

[NashTrickster]

The phrase is "the exception that proves the rule"

And "proves" in this case refers to an old use of the word, meaning "tests"

So it's basically "the exception that tests the rule" - demonstrating that the rule is not completely true.

But the phrase has mutated somewhat in use so people use it to mean basically the opposite of its literal meaning.

Well, as the last portions of my location should have let you know, english isn't my native language... And the french expression is literally "confirms".
Moreover, in my french dictionnary, the definition given for this expression is: "used to denote that an exception to a rule doesn't necessarily prove it wrong"...
Hence my use of the sentence was spot on from my french POV

What I meant by that, since I'd rather make myself clear, is that Szeras cannot be considered a proof of the acceptation of body modification among the general Necron population.
He is a very particular Cryptek, with some very specific theories and "beliefs", somewhat extreme ones, which partly explain why he went through these modifications.
He is moreover literally the exception, being the only non-Destroyer we know of to have undergone modifications, and his modifications being exceptionnal themselves...

[Lord Damocles]

He is moreover literally the exception, being the only non-Destroyer we know of to have undergone modifications, and his modifications being exceptionnal themselves...

Except for The Undying One (Word Bearers series) - 'spyder lord' - and the Overlord from Hellforged - erm, thing.

Neither of which are noted as being Destroyer Lords, and both of which are in overall command of the Necron forces in question.

[Iron_Lord]

Except for The Undying One (Word Bearers series) - 'spyder lord' - and the Overlord from Hellforged - erm, thing.

Neither of which are noted as being Destroyer Lords, and both of which are in overall command of the Necron forces in question.

"Lords with modifications" are portrayed as not that unusual in the 5E main rulebook:

page 179:

Necron Lords retain the personality and memory denied to their minions. Even so, not all have survived the great sleep unscathed. Filled with bitter resentfulness of other life, some Necron Lords lead their minions on bloody harvests, murdering millions in an attempt to quench their rage.

Others have been driven utterly insane by the weight of aeons. Believing themselves to be the reincarnations of ancient gods, these Necron Lords have their consciousness grafted into ever more grandiose forms as they embark on campaigns of conquest and destruction.

A basic Destroyer Lord is not exactly grandiose.

"The Setekh" however, a giant Necron Lord about two to three times the height of a human, in the Kal Jericho comic book, does seem like a prototype of this concept.

[NashTrickster]

True Lord Damocles... (Although one could argue that both examples you mention pre-date the last Codex, and the retcon of the Necron race, which could make them unfit as examples.)

But still, like Iron_Lord outlined, Lords aren't "generic Necrons"... Some retain the power (most likely thanks to the programmed loyalty of their followers) necessary to not be considered Outcasts even if they became Destroyers (as per the quote you posted in post #8 of this very thread), or gained illusions of grandeur which pushed them to undergo other types of modifications to better reflect the image they have of themselves...

However, the old-style-Wraiths weren't Lords (IIRC there wasn't even an option for Wraith Lords in the old Codex) and would not be treated the same way as a very prominent Cryptek or a Lord with many loyal followers... Therefore, the only way to re-introduce old-style-Wraiths, which would IMHO fit with the current fluff, is to make them members of a Destroyer Cult.

I just realized that I didn't make myself clear enough when I posted my initial message that I excluded high-ranking Lords (and Crypteks) from the equation and only considered the lower ranks of of the Necrons... (That's what I meant when I mentionned the "general Necron population" later.)
I'm sorry for this lack of precision.

To come back to the issue of rank, I'd say that such Wraiths would probably have to be at least from the same rank as Immortals... Because basic Warriors would have neither enough personnality, nor enough influence, to get such modifications.
The only way I can see for basic Warriors to become Wraiths is if they were at the service of a Lord which went through such modifications and had his followers transformed in his image...
But that still does not really tell where they'd be neither within the general hierarchy, nor amongst the hierarchy of Destroyer Cults...

[DYoung]

I got the impression from the old Codex that Wraiths were some sort of evil doctor kind of things, cutting up and analysing the other races in the galaxy. This role seems to have been taken by the Crypteks in the new codex though.