Tau questions

[snake-eyez]

I have a few questions about Tau (and 40k general rules)

1. If you deepstrike crisis suits at the start of your turn, can they still do their 6 inch move in the assault phase because of their jetpacks?

2. If you have a crisis commander joining a squad of crisis suits, and both the commander and one of the normal crisis suits have a drone controller and 2 drones each, do you have to consider them as two separate lots of 2 drones for wound allocation? (since the drones go once the guy with the drone controller dies)

3. If you keep units in reserve (ie kroot and crisis suits), do you have to declare at the start of the game wether or not you intend to outflank (with the kroot), deepstrike (with the crisis suits) or just bring them on your table edge? Or can you decide when you go to roll for reserves later in the game?

[therat]

1. I believe the answer is no, but I have no rule quote for this. The DS rules specifically mention fleet and that units are too disrupted by the DS to move, but nothing about JPs.

2. I believe they count as one pack, you can allocate wounds to all drones and then begin allocating to suits, no rule distinguishes them from other units in this regard.

3. You must declare this when you go do deploy the unit at the beginning of the game.

[Tethylis]

1. Yes they can still use their assault jump move.

Q: Can a unit equipped with jet packs make its normal
move in the assault phase if it arrived by deep strike
that turn? (p52)
A: Yes it can, unless it specifically states otherwise.
Remember that you cannot use this move to launch an
assault on the turn you arrived by deep striking.

2. Would only be different if the actual drone were different, i.e one had a pair of gun drones while the other had shield drones.

3. Declare during deployment, see BRB pg 94.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

1. I'd like to review this a bit more, but right now it seems to me that crisis suits can DS/jump (as per Tethylis' FAQ entry) and stealth suits cannot (as "it specifically states otherwise" in the Tau codex, buried in some fluff text). ...Bizarre.

2. Agree, one group.

3. Note that this is true for all armies; during deployment you must declare the composition and method of entering play for all units in reserve. (There are two notable exceptions: Necron Veil of Darkness can be used to "deep-strike" onto the table as their walk-on arrival move, and Dark Eldar can choose to use a Webway Portal instead of their declared form of arriving if there's one available.)

[Empirespy]

1) No they can't, everything with jetpacks can with the exception of, stealth suits and XV8 crisis suits. This means Shadowsun, drones and XV9 battlesuits can, as they aren't in these brackets, and don't have rules excluding them from doing so. Pg27 Tau codex, text box

2) One group, but you still have to be able to differentiate between the two sets, (owner markings?) as if one of the suit dies, as his drones go down at the end of the phase.

3) Further conformation that you do it when deploying.

[ehlijen]

For 2) I'd actually say they're two different groups. The facts that survival depends on the survival of different controllers and that in melee they'd be treated as parts of different units for hit allocations suggests to me that they are in fact not identical in game terms.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Here we all were, having a nice cup of tea, and Culven has to come in and remind everyone that nobody knows for sure what "identical in game terms" really means, in practice, at all.

[ehlijen]

Culven? I don't see him in this thread.

And I just think that if wounds can't be spread between models in CC due them temporarily being different units, I don't think they should be spread between them from shooting either. I do know that's an arbitrary view to take, but I thought it needed voicing.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

...Huh. Apparently I only looked at the last two letters of your name or something. ...Sorry!

Not really sure where you're coming from on the "temporarily being different units" thing. In the process of resolving attacks (or shooting), the separate unit distinction kicks in way before "identical in gaming terms" is even relevant. It's impossible for models to be tested against "identical in gaming terms" when they're in separate units.

[Culven]

Here we all were, having a nice cup of tea, and Culven has to come in and remind everyone that nobody knows for sure what "identical in game terms" really means, in practice, at all.

Actually, I would remind everyone that "identical in game terms" is defined on page 25 and only compares profile of characteristics, special rules, weapons, and wargear. So, it doesn't matter who is controlling which drone, since that isn't one of the criteria for comparison.

[ehlijen]

Interesting. So the example drones could have wounds carry over from group to group in shooting (as ICs don't become a seperate unit) but not in combat (as they'd be defined as seperate units for the duration of the resolve attacks step).

[snake-eyez]

So to redefine the question that's still going on (about the drones);

should the two lots of two drones be treated separately which could allow more dodgey wound allocation and so on, or...

should the four drones be considered identical children as some sort of communal family with two parents (drone controllers), then a drone dies leaving three left, and when one of the two drone controllers die, should just a single drone be removed with it leaving two drones left with the remaining single widow of a drone controller?

[Empirespy]

Basically, roll for wounds on the drones as a single group, (unless they are different drones of course), but make a note of whose drone is being killed, so if two drones die, say who they belonged to, in order to stop, 'oh the drone controller's dead, but those two drones don't belong to him, so nothing else goes down' moments, unless it's already been out in the open.
I hope this made sense.

[Culven]

should the four drones be considered identical children as some sort of communal family with two parents (drone controllers), then a drone dies leaving three left, and when one of the two drone controllers die, should just a single drone be removed with it leaving two drones left with the remaining single widow of a drone controller?

The Drones are identical in game terms (per page 25), so they will be treated as a single group for wound allocation. Hiowever, the Drone Controller rules make it important to know which drones are controlled by which model, so there needs to be some way to identify which controller lost drones. Personally, I have my drones marked so I know who controls which, but a simple declaration of "this model lost one (or both) of its Drones" should be sufficient.

[ehlijen]

It depends. In shooting, when ICs (and their drones) are considered part of the unit, they are one group. In combat, when ICs (and their drones) are considered a seperate unit, they are one group each in each of the seperate units, ie two groups (but then hits and wounds should be seperately generated anyway).

[niknokitueu]

The Drones are identical in game terms (per page 25), so they will be treated as a single group for wound allocation. Hiowever, the Drone Controller rules make it important to know which drones are controlled by which model, so there needs to be some way to identify which controller lost drones. Personally, I have my drones marked so I know who controls which, but a simple declaration of "this model lost one (or both) of its Drones" should be sufficient.

What ^he said. If the drones are identical, they are just one large group.

Imagine an alternative view: Two SM Tac squads, with unique shoulder marking, special weapons and a sarge, led by a special character that allows the squads to temporarily join each other. All the standard loadout marines will be one large group, with each set of special weapons forming their own groups, irrespective of which actual squad each belong to. If they later split up again, they go back to being in their own squads.

As an extra, to keep things simple for you, it may be better to cluster the drones around each controller - that way it should be more obvious which controller is losing a drone when a drone dies.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[archanfel]

3) do remember that only outflank of those have to be declared. deepstikers can choose to come DS or walk on when they come out of reserves

[ehlijen]

3) do remember that only outflank of those have to be declared. deepstikers can choose to come DS or walk on when they come out of reserves

That is incorrect. All reserves must pick one and only one arrival method when they are placed in reserves during the deployment phase. Barring special character rules, there is nothing in the game that allows that choice to be changed afterwards that I know of.

[Magicafiend]

That is incorrect. All reserves must pick one and only one arrival method when they are placed in reserves during the deployment phase. Barring special character rules, there is nothing in the game that allows that choice to be changed afterwards that I know of.

I'm 90% sure(at work no codex on me) that a unit of crons with a veil-tech can choose to whether to deepstrike in or to walk on the edge(because using the veil is technically movement not deployment) when they come in from reserves.

"Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving
onto the board when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)
A: Yes."

[ehlijen]

Fair enough, though technically you still walk on, you just have a special deep strike like option instead of walking.