Footslogging Eldar

[Frimbleglim]

40K Army: Eldar

HQ Avatar 155
HQ Autarch Warp Jump Generator, Fusion Gun, Scorpian Chainsword 110
Elites Fire Dragons x9 Exarch, Dragon's Breath Flamer 156
Elites Fire Dragons x10 Exarch, Dragon's Breath Flamer 172
Elites Fire Dragons x10 Exarch, Dragon's Breath Flamer 172
Troops Guardians x10 Scatter laser, warlock, singing spear, conceal 138
Troops Guardians x10 Scatter laser, warlock, singing spear, conceal 138
Troops Jetbikes x3 Shurican Cannon, Warlock, Singing Spear 124
Fast Attack Warp Spiders x10 Exarch, Aditional Death Spinner, Withdraw 252
Fast Attack Warp Spiders x10 Exarch, Aditional Death Spinner, Withdraw 252
Heavy Support War Walker x3 Scatter laser x6 180

Total
1849

The idea is to make a competitive list that will fit into a single carry case. All feedback welcome. I have forgone an assault unit in the hope of counter-attacking with massed fire dragons. The autarch is there so that I can hold the jetbikes in reserve if necessary to claim an objective or save a kill point.

[Bergen Beerbelly]

Ok, Please don't take this the wrong way but I think your list will get eaten in a competitive environment because of a few things I think are weaknesses in the build.

First, the Avatar is a great addition. I think that kind of threat and it's ability to keep your units from running is great. However, without the presence of a Farseer to protect him from dying by casting Fortune on him, he will probably die to missile fire or lascannon fire. Armies like the Imperial Guard and Space Wolves take those things in spades. So they will see that you don't have a fortuned Avatar and destroy him quickly.

Second...the Dragons Breath Flamers on the Fire Dragons in my opinion are not worth it. Why? because they allow for wound shenanigans vs what the rest of your squad is shooting. So a savvy opponent would let you shoot him with the Dragons Breath Flamer and the Fusion Guns, then spread the wounds out because the DBF doesn't punch their armour. This will allow them to place all of the AP 1 shots on very few models and in the end you don't kill a whole lot.

Another problem is that the workhorse of Fire Dragons in a foot list is going to be the Exarch. With his Ballistic Skill and ability to ignore cover, it is very important that he carry a Firepike to help kill the inevitable mech you will encounter at range.

Third, without the use of untargettable Harlequins, I see your stuff getting shot up pretty quickly with very few good cover saves (yes, I realize that the Guardians are getting cover, even while in the open, but lets face it, it isn't good cover compared to what you can get from being in area terrain) Harlequins allow you to put something in front of the rest of your army that allows cover saves to the troops behind that is better than what you would get with the Warlock and Conceal. All while remaining immune to getting shot if the opponent is outside of 24 inches.

Well, I hope I have helped you to maybe look at your lists more objectively and seen some of the weaknesses that I see and would exploit were I playing against you with some of my other armies.

[Voloch]

Avatar works best with 2 Storm Guardians+Warlock-units around him.
Firedragons ... max 6 a unit and a serpent is a must-have.
Warp Spiders .... 6-7 a unit and make 3 units.

Eldar do not make good foot sloggers. Fire Dragons especially not. I would see about getting some heavy Bright Lances instead of Fire Dragons if you insist on slogging to deal with heavy armour or support weapons with D-cannons. Good thing is that the Monolith no longer negates the Lance-effect. Then DAs are good as support unit for the advancing Avatar/Guardians

You have some good elements in there, kudos for trying. But I am afraid you'll get shot to pieces if you stick with this.

[Frimbleglim]

Ok, so the main problem is that I was thinking too much about how to deal with assulting armies rather than massed firepower. I'll have another think and try again. Also shooting doesn't work quite the way I thourght, I will have to reread those rules.

Thanks both.

[Voloch]

Ok, so the main problem is that I was thinking too much about how to deal with assulting armies rather than massed firepower. I'll have another think and try again. Also shooting doesn't work quite the way I thourght, I will have to reread those rules.

Thanks both.

The problem with Eldar is that they are hard to work well without their trusted serpents. It's really an army that cries out for transportation. Don't discard your list, but try to rethink it.
I'm with Bergen on the FD Exarch and Flamer, but I think I remember Irisado being quite happy with it. I avoid them all together in favour of scorpions and banshees though.

[Frimbleglim]

I've had luck with 30 fire dragons in three wave serpents with dragons breath flamers. I find that they can kill just about anything. especially pesky special characters. Bright lance strike me as inaccurate and expensive. Trouble is I don't want to have to carry too much on the london underground (Where I am at uni) so I would rather not play a fully mech list.

[Bergen Beerbelly]

I agree with you about DBF in 10 man squads and being transported in Wave Serpents. There are enough wounds that are AP1 going around in 10 man squads that wound shenanigans don't really work vs them.

But remember that the entire reason it does work is because you can fly the Serpent up to an inch away from some squad and disembark, then shoot them with your Fire Dragons and the DBF and get a good number of guys under the template. It's not that easy to do in a foot list. You don't have that kind of mobility. And in foot lists, you aren't being backed up by your Wave Serpent with it's anti-tank shots...the entire responsibility to kill tanks falls on the troops.

This means it is more important to have accurate tank killing ability and no one does it better than a Fire Dragon Exarch with a Firepike and Crack Shot and Tank Hunter.

[Frimbleglim]

Ok so harlequins it is. Which is great by the way because they are my favorite gw models and favorite characters in terms of fluff. on the other hand it will mean I need to buy some more models but you can't have everything.

Now the unit entry is interesting for them. They have anti tank potential with fusion pistols and they have str 6 spam potential with the death jester. Or I could just make the entire unit rending.

The shadowseer is a no brainer. The death jester is also a sensible choice but what else? Do I need them to be rending or do I take 3 squads of 5 with 2 fusion pistols shadow seer and death jester in each unit?

[purge the daemon]

Go jester shadowseer rending dual pistol and the troop master with power weapons. (More attacks) units of 10 for sure.

[Bergen Beerbelly]

This is where the choice is up to you as both can be interesting options. I would say play around with both ways of taking Harlequins and see what fits your style better.

[Frimbleglim]

Go jester shadowseer rending dual pistol and the troop master with power weapons. (More attacks) units of 10 for sure.

No rending? That's 31 attacks or 30 with death jester but only str 3. I'm not convinced. That is over 200pts per unit and not usable for much more than a screen.

[althathir]

For the dragons I think you want fire pikes & crack shot instead of DBF, the extra range is a big help and makes fire priority tougher for your opponent.

I also think you should run at least 1 wraith lord, and a seer instead of the autarch.

The problem with Eldar is that they are hard to work well without their trusted serpents. It's really an army that cries out for transportation. Don't discard your list, but try to rethink it.
I'm with Bergen on the FD Exarch and Flamer, but I think I remember Irisado being quite happy with it. I avoid them all together in favour of scorpions and banshees though.

I agree with you on eldar being easier to run mech'ed up, but I think depending on your meta foot slogging is the way to go. Our vehicles just don't do enough enough damage for the most part, and with how expensive our transports are we become more of a durable objective stealing army. The problem is that when people are loading up on AT to handle razor spam, it makes it a much tougher playstyle. Footdar can deal more damage, is fairly solid vs. GK, and can be a nice change of pace.

A player made the top 16 at adepticon and while his list looks subpar, it beat IG, Venom Spam, and a solid wolf list to get there (and drew with probably the best wolf player in the tourney).

[Frimbleglim]

Well here is his list:

Reecius' Mighty Mighty Footdar
Eldrad
Avatar
Dire Avengers x 10
Dire Avengers x 10
Dire Avengers x 10
Guardians x 10: Shuriken Cannon
Jet Bikes x 3
Harlies x 10: Kisses x 10, Shadowseer
Firedragons x 5: Exarch, Fire Pike, Crack Shot
Firedragons x 5: Exarch, Fire Pike, Crack Shot
War Walkers x 3: Scatter Lasers x 6
Wraithlord: EML, B.Lance
Wraithlord: EML, B.Lance
( =1816 points I believe)

Can I improve on it? Scatter lasers rather than EML on the wraithlords maybe. I agree that they need to be the ones carrying the brightlances if there are to be any in the list though. So EML makes sense because it can target similar stuff to a bright lance.

I think that Guardians with scatter lasers are probably better than dire avengers and then try to keep the range extreme for as long as possible. Points could be saved by taking a regular farseer rather than eldrad.

[TheDoctor]

No rending? That's 31 attacks or 30 with death jester but only str 3. I'm not convinced. That is over 200pts per unit and not usable for much more than a screen.

I find that if you are trying to shave points, squads of 8 work fairly well.

And I think he ment rending for everyone. Otherwise, why run harlequins? Remember, that they also have furious charge, so they are S4. Also, they have 4 attacks each on the charge, death jester has 3.

[Frimbleglim]

Well I could run a squad of 10 with kisses, shadowseer, troup master =286pts That would make sense.

I could also run 3x squads of 5 with shadowseer, death jester =390pts basicaly using them for str 6 spam. I could then run squads of 10 guardians with scatter lasers not bother with conceel (maybe take destructor) and take the singing spears for anti tank or possibly no warlock at all... I'll post a list when I get this straight in my head.

[Frimbleglim]

How about this list:


HQ
Avatar:- 155
Farseer, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune, Singing Spear:- 133

Elites
5 Harlequins, Death Jester, Shadowseer:- 130
5 Harlequins, Death Jester, Shadowseer:- 130
5 Harlequins, Death Jester, Shadowseer:- 130

Troops
10 Guardians, Scatter laser, Warlock, Singing Spear, Embolden:- 128
10 Guardians, Scatter laser, Warlock, Singing Spear, Destructor:- 133
10 Guardians, Scatter laser, Warlock, Singing Spear, Destructor:- 133
10 Guardians, Scatter laser, Warlock, Singing Spear, Destructor:- 133

Fast Attack
10 Warp Spiders, Exarch, Additional Death Spinner, Withdraw:- 252

Heavy Support
3 War Walkers, 6x Scatter laser:- 180
2 Distort Cannon:- 100
2 Distort Cannon:- 100

Total:- 1837

[Frimbleglim]

Or Actually, Better:


HQ
Avatar:- 155
Farseer, Spirit Stones, Guide, Fortune, Singing Spear:- 128

Elites
5 Harlequins, Death Jester, Shadowseer:- 130
5 Harlequins, Death Jester, Shadowseer:- 130
5 Harlequins, Death Jester, Shadowseer:- 130

Troops
10 Guardians, Scatter laser, Warlock, Singing Spear, Embolden:- 128
10 Guardians, Scatter laser, Warlock, Singing Spear:- 123
10 Guardians, Scatter laser, Warlock, Singing Spear:- 123
10 Guardians, Scatter laser, Warlock, Singing Spear:- 123

Fast Attack
10 Warp Spiders, Exarch, Additional Death Spinner, Withdraw:- 252

Heavy Support
3 War Walkers, 6x Scatter laser:- 180
3 War Walkers, 3x bright lance 3x Eldar Missile Launcher:- 240

Total:- 1842

[bountylord]

Dont run harlequins in squads of 5 if you want them decked out with a shadowseer and a death jester. you are getting 3 shuricannons for 390 pts. that's horrible. you can run run 18 shuricannons on warwalkers for 360pts..... 3 cannons is not spam... if you run into anything with Armour 12 and above your in deep **** as once they take out your warwalkers (which BL are not point efficient on WW's) you have no way to deal with his heavy Armour. If you want to run the harlequins you could hide a few fusion guns in there squads. People are always surprised when I throw some melta out of an assault squad. Overall you are going to be hurting from T3 av10 and 5+ saves.

Going back to wraithlords. The Lances and EMLs can be put to better use with their BS4 if you decide not to hide the fusion guns. you could drop 1 guardian squad for that.

Oh and lastly I wouldn't run the warlocks if you aren't giving them a power. 5+ invulnerable is awesome because most weapons chew threw a 5+ armour save anyways.

[bobafett_h]

You can't take a Warlock without a power anyway...

[TheDoctor]

@Bobafett
Actually you can take warlocks without powers, only farseers NEED to buy a power.

@Frimble
Second on the points about trying to spam shuricannons with harlequins, and about bright lances on war walkers. I would probably go with 2-3 wraithlords, Bright Lance/Missile launcher; and a squad of scatter laser war walkers if you go with 2 wraithlords