What REALLY Wins Games?

[Jezbot]

So, you have no problem with armies remaining in huge blocks, so long as they charge a random distance?

Armies fought in huge blocks, rank & file. That's where the term rank & file soldier came from, because he was a regular trooper, who formed into large blocks of rank & file.

Furthermore, we're not meant to be playing a simulation of historical battles - we're supposed to be playing a tabletop strategy game in a Fantasy setting.

That's a tired old argument, because there's dragons then nothing else from reality need apply. We aren't dealing with a setting created by Salvador Dali where any fantastical nonsense could exist. We're dealing with a world where even the most fantastical of creatures is defined, and how it interacts with the world is known. To argue that there should be no reason to model real world tactical concerns like unknown distances because there are ratmen in the game is nonsense.

Your argument makes even less sense when you consider that in previous editions there was still an effort to model these unknowns - that's what banning premeasuring was about. The problem was that most players within about a dozen games could eyeball ranges very accurately - as a means to include some kind of fog of war it didn't work.

No, it probably isn't realistic for armies to charge successfully every time and remain in formation. However, nor (IMO) is it any more realistic for them to stop a quater of an beyond the half-range of archers/crossbowmen. Furthermore, I'm happy to sacrifice realism (especially in a Fantasy setting), if it means having full control over my army's movement.

Only if we assume troop movements are as they occur in the game are exactly as are occuring in the fantasy world. So a unit trying to make a charge across 9" is trying to make a charge across 90 yards in the fantasy world, and a unit trying to make a charge across 15" is trying to make a charge across 150 yards in the fantasy world.

Except we know that isn't true, and that ranges and turns are an abstraction, because if we apply historical weapon ranges to WHFB, and then use that to determine distances, and then note how fast troops are travelling between weapon volleys, the answer is complete gibberish.

The whole thing is abstract. Instead of thinking 'they tried & failed to charge across 8', think of it as 'the general was informed they were in good charge, and signalled they should proceed, minutes later he was informed the unit took some time to gain cohesion, and the target was further than estimated, and they are now regaining cohesion for another charge'.

So, the benefit for random charge range is that you can deliberatly select an unlikely charge range and hope to roll that double-6?

You said there was no upside. I pointed out that you can make unlikely charges just as often as you can fail likely charges.

That's just what it is. It used to be you could charge 8" (or 10", or 14" or whatever). Now you have a range in which you might make a charge, with a mean in the middle, and anything below that is a charge you should make (and therefore a risk you might fail what you ought to achieve), with anything above being a charge you shouldn't make (and therefore a chance you might succeed where you shouldn't).

[Durloth]

I have had a couple of games against really top-notch opponents during my years as a tournament player and what I think separates them from more average players like me, is that they are able to make the randomness of the game count for less. They are able to stack the odds so much in their favor that it would be almost impossible for them to fail and always have a contingency plan that lets them deal with the situation should the improbable happen. IE they will maneuver so that there is a highest possible chance for them to make the charges they want but always keep in mind that it still could fail and make sure that the situation that then appear could still be resolved to their advantage.

This way I think the "luck" factor in Warhammer becomes almost insignificant when you reach a certain level of skill.