Gods in 3.0 D&D play dice with the universe, sometimes throw the dice behind the DM's screen where they cannot be seen and then count as getting the best possible result.
"Absolute precision buys the freedom to dream meaningfully." -Donnal O'Shea The Poincare Conjecture.
I agree with Bergen and major league kudos to Reece for taking them to Adepticon and doing so well. People love to underestimate certain armies and it makes me smile to see an unorthodox list do that well in a highly competitive environment.
Footdar is nice.
Maybe it's the eldar players ultimate challange as without the crazy fast tanks that deploys your highly specialized troops, it's really hard to get them to do the right thing.
Anvil/Hammer lists with wraithwall was viable some years ago. Don't really know now.
Wraithseer, Eldrad, 2 Wlords, 1 squad Wguards, Scorpions and Stormguardians as countercharge, Pathfinders as support. That's what I would use.
To the OP: Congratulations and don't worry about the hating. Whenever anything pops up that isn't the norm, you will get a whole horde of people on the Internet telling you it'll never work. I have a lot of respect for what you did, and I hope tanks as a necessity will disappear soon as I hate painting tanks.
That's why I went with an all Khorne Daemon army.
Hopefully, the 6th ed. will allow us to play différently. As a Biel-Tan player, I would really like to play a rainbow-full-aspect army! (with or without tanks...) And anyway, I don't care that much if I don't win every time!
Everytime one person places 16th in a tournament, I imagine there's hundreds of Footdar players who've been Battle Cannoned/Heavy Flamered/Tank Shocked/Assaulted etc etc off the table
I've got nothing against the idea of "Rainbow Foot Lists of Synergy" (tm), just GW can't write a balanced ruleset (either codex or main rulebook) to make them viable. FW (amazingly for once) seem to be on the right track with Corsair Squads. 10 models with 2x Fusion Guns, 2xEMLs and Jetpacs. Still fall over to a stiff breeze though mind
Don't underestimate foot lists too much.
Part of the problem is the way some tournaments operate. If a tournament organizer doesn't lay down enough terrain and has pre-determined objective placement in missions it favours mech lists. If a mission allows a foot list to remain fairly static, it can do well.
Which also explains why you see alot of CWE players going Footdar. What other army can field their best long range AT on a walking platform? Or has nearly army-wide Fleet? Or can fire heavy weapons on the move in an infantry unit?
So the theory is that Footdar can operate as a mobile gunline. While everyone's spamming single shot AT, you're not fielding anything they're paying premium points to shoot.
The problem? The top tier lists are better than average at everything. Missile Launchers can fire frag. IG don't have to be in their Chimeras (believe it or not, they get alot of lasguns). Grey Hunters can shoot. Grey Knights can shoot and still move and charge.
Personally, I think if Sieze Ground and Kill Points were the only missions you saw, we'd see more gunline style armies. Or if having a single heavy weapon in a troop unit didn't waste the potential of the unit one way or the other - which is where you sometimes see things like the '3 Trueborn, 2 Lance' units.
Archon of the Ravenous Void Kabal.
I have played a footdar list for quite some time (but at 1500 points) and the main quality I have found that it has is that it actually is fun to play.
You have options, multiple combos that don't break if one component is taken out (well ok except Eldrad), you have something to do constatly, you rearly run out of usefull models.
I find that it presents so many threats, and enough hard ones, that the opponents target control gets overloaded.
Guardians are a must imo, they are cheap and with the avatar score to the last man, and are so low in the food chain that they will score more often than not. Plus they are a source for an extra S9 shot, and a Wraithlord babysitter for backfield. So take a unit of ten with a Launcher and sit them on an obgective backfield with a Wraithlord in cover nearby. They are both doing their jobs and can't be easily moved. Or you can go another way and have a cheap unit to sacrifice. But that S9 and the fearless are real points multiplyers. I use a 20 strong squad. And it is really quite hard to have to get rid of every single one of those fearless dudes, that also give cover, because they are coming for your objective. And ignore the Avatar coming with them.
A few points here:-
Pretty much most armies can move and shoot AT, and are better at it than Footdar. Dreads can move 6" and fire two heavy weapons, BA Razors can move 12" and still fire their weapon etcWhich also explains why you see alot of CWE players going Footdar. What other army can field their best long range AT on a walking platform? Or has nearly army-wide Fleet? Or can fire heavy weapons on the move in an infantry unit?
Not sure what you're getting at here ? Maybe give some examples ?So the theory is that Footdar can operate as a mobile gunline. While everyone's spamming single shot AT, you're not fielding anything they're paying premium points to shoot.
I really think you're underestimating the ability of mech to move and shoot...The problem? The top tier lists are better than average at everything. Missile Launchers can fire frag. IG don't have to be in their Chimeras (believe it or not, they get alot of lasguns). Grey Hunters can shoot. Grey Knights can shoot and still move and charge.
Sorry, but ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz for any return to 4th ed gunlinePersonally, I think if Sieze Ground and Kill Points were the only missions you saw, we'd see more gunline style armies. Or if having a single heavy weapon in a troop unit didn't waste the potential of the unit one way or the other - which is where you sometimes see things like the '3 Trueborn, 2 Lance' units.
Eldar is one of the few listst that do foot army well.
They suffer from a lack of effective anti-tank (S6 spam war walker is about as good as it comes for eldar) but other than that, they have great damage potential, good psychic defence and with the obligatory Eldrad, have the durability to weather most incoming attacks.
I'm not sure whether it is possible for footdar to stand up to foot GK, but they should do well enough. I always found Wave Serpents to be overpriced, undergunned and just all-around terrible. Falcons with a compliment of Firedragons on the other hand, not so much.
SW, GK, BA, IG can play footsoldier, but their mech list is vastly superior.
I guess I need to qualify that statement, Eldar is one of the few armies where their foot list is better than their mech list.
Beside that, if you thing of tanks in form from big bad mcs, then no, tyranids goes better without the mcs, meaning, going better without tanks.
Another lol that came to my mind, if you thing of demons, they have a "mech" unit. I think they also go better without their "mech".
Sry. Couldn't resist.
Originally Posted by SouleaterOriginally Posted by Aramoro
Quit hating on a list that worked people. Its stuff like this that makes people quit playing 40k and go to different games because regardless of how good you do there are always the bastards who get nitpicky about how you could have done better. I am starting to believe that half the people hating in this thread are the ones that got beat by him in the earlier rounds.
Once again Congrats for doing well with a nicely designed and often unappreciated army build.
@Reivax26, It wasn't actually the OP that did this. It was Reecius from Dakka that placed. The OP just wanted to discuss the list and what some of it's strengths are.
And I disagree with the people who are saying that a lot of the other foot lists do better than Eldar foot lists. They don't. Foot Eldar have the ability to close with other foot lists and put out far more firepower at 24 inch threat range and can also assult after doing so.
I think the people dissing it need to re read Reeces battle report and see what the list actually has the capability of doing.
Hey all, I went and got a login just to say...
I hope no offence is caused, but it looks like after the 2nd post there aren't really any answers here to the OP. Most of the posts seem to be about the merits of Footdar in the abstract- their 'power level' against other armies, I guess, and whether it's possible to win with them, which is a fine discussion to have... but the OP was asking specifically HOW Reecius won with them. I'm sure they are, in the abstract, a sub-optimal army- pretty much everything seems weak and/or overcosted- but clearly winning isn't impossible. So the question is: how did he overcome this sub-optimalness? How did he make effective use of the units? How did the units work together? If people are looking to get better at the game, I think those are the questions to answer...
Draigo's Razor: When presented with multiple explanations for a new piece of 40K content, the most likely answer is the one intentionally designed to make you, personally, angry.
Tales of the Seferim Sector: an ongoing series of narrative battle reports.
Kommanda Shinbash's Misfits - 1500 pt Orks
Even in the case of Mechdar, sure a few Falcons with Firedragons are great for the mech meta, but it's not really spammable because Serpents are so expensive. It's a mistake trying to beat marine MSU at their own game.
I'm not saying Footdar is superior to Mech. Mech is simple and effective. Foot lists are complex and have some issues but they can be made to work. All I'm saying is, don't get cocky just because you ripped off a netlist, Footdar will still make you play the game.
Eldar players are looking for new ways to take advantage of their codex's strengths. When was the last time you saw a marine player look for a new way to play their codex? This sort of thing should be encouraged because it's healthy for the hobby... and everyone's sanity.
Archon of the Ravenous Void Kabal.