Can I use OOP Obliterator's and other models in tournaments?

[ben8s8]

The early Chaos Obliterators appear to me smaller. Is it allowed to use them in tournaments, aswell as other OOP Rouge Trader models?

[stereynolds]

Only if you post in the right section of the forum :P

[ben8s8]

Well there must a Rule to determine whether I can or cannot use them.

[T10]

Well, they are official Citadel Minitatures models, so go ahead.

[shelfunit.]

Well there must a Rule to determine whether I can or cannot use them.

They are GW models and have current rules. There is nothing in the rules that says they have to be the current models. A couple of years ago I went to Warhammer World when there was a fantasy tourney on and one of the guys there had a lizardman army which had a large number of the old slann warriors taking the place of saurus - he had no troubles fielding them.

[Mr_Rose]

Well there must a Rule to determine whether I can or cannot use them.

Quite possibly there is… just, which army book are these 'obliterators' of yours from? If they are from an extinct unit entry, from a previous edition perhaps, you might have to use good ol' "counts as" to get them into your list.
S'funny really, I'd have pegged them as a 40k unit based on just the name really….

[Scalebug]

You will want to put them on 40mm bases, as that is what obliterators are supplied with nowadays (ignore that idiots that tell you that the rule is "base they came on" and that you should be allowed the free advantage of a smaller base...), and if you do it by gluing the 25mm bases you likely have them on now on top of the larger base, and then smooth it out with some filler you will come closer to the height of hte current models, as a bonus.

They will still be a fair bit smaller, and you might get some whines over taking advantage of true line of sight, but it will in reality very rarely be an issue, either a piece of terrain will hide you or it will not, regardless if you have an old or current model.

All this of course only if you have posted this in the wrong section, if your question is "can I use my old obliterator models in warhammer?" then the answer is "Eh?...no..." (Unless you give them 25mm square bases and use them as chaos warriors or something...)

[ben8s8]

Thanks Scalebug. Yes you are right, I'm in the wrong section opps.

I'll get the old ones and just use the bigger bases!

[don_mondo]

As with any question regarding what is allowed or not allowed in a tournament, there is one primary answer. Ask the TO. I can state that I have never had a problem using my RT era IG, Marines, Genestealer Cult, etc etc in tournaments to include GW US GTs (back when we had real GW GTs). But I have also heard stories of them not being allowed. In fact, many stores these days don't even care whether or not it is a GW odel. Ever since GW quit providing support for the store events, the stores quit requiring the use of GW models for what is purely a store event.

[Kevlar]

I have a bunch of the old ones. I just glued the 25mm base on top of a 40mm base and reflocked it. Doesn't look bad and raises them up a bit so there shouldn't be any crying over them being too small. Still nowhere near as big as the new gigantic plastic terminators though.

[striker8]

You will want to put them on 40mm bases, as that is what obliterators are supplied with nowadays (ignore that idiots that tell you that the rule is "base they came on" and that you should be allowed the free advantage of a smaller base...), and if you do it by gluing the 25mm bases you likely have them on now on top of the larger base, and then smooth it out with some filler you will come closer to the height of hte current models, as a bonus.

They will still be a fair bit smaller, and you might get some whines over taking advantage of true line of sight, but it will in reality very rarely be an issue, either a piece of terrain will hide you or it will not, regardless if you have an old or current model.

All this of course only if you have posted this in the wrong section, if your question is "can I use my old obliterator models in warhammer?" then the answer is "Eh?...no..." (Unless you give them 25mm square bases and use them as chaos warriors or something...)

People who follow the directions in the rules are idiot are they? Talk about some one who thinks a tad bit to much of his opinion! Idiots take the game far to seriously that they let things like base size from old miniatures bother them!

The rules say the base the miniature was supplied with, you might not like it but that's the way it is and telling people they need to conform to what you feel is correct is rather sad.

[Sir_Turalyon]

(ignore that idiots that tell you that the rule is "base they came on" and that you should be allowed the free advantage of a smaller base...),.)

It's not "free" advantage - it's advantage brought by having classic obliterator models, either by virtue of having hunted them down second hand or of being in hobby for at least ten years. Gained on top of having rare models that look better.

The rule of "bases they came with" has a purpose - if Citadel changed base size once, they can decide to do it again when they redo the model, and again and again. Are we supposed to rip the base off the minis, or put them on pyramide of bigger and bigger bases everytime? I'm not even getting into converting things like Guardians with lasguns or Orks with power weapons, or old Rhinos / Land Raiders / Land Speeders / Truks / Raiders with very different hull footprints... A miniature is a functional product; you don't need to alter it to resemble a similiar but different product every time one gets released and other discontined. Just like you don't have to strip and repaint all your minis with new line of paints just because new line of paints replaced the old one . You can play with that if you feel like converting, it's your call, your minis.

As of tournaments, ask the organizers if in doubt.

[Scalebug]

It freaking never fails...

Again, not going to discuss it, anyone who argues for free advantages in a point-based game system is not worth debating. The OP has gotten his answer, and been sensible about it, as has others. The trollish outliers are not worth the time. Don't be one, people. Out.

[Gargantuan]

I'd prefer that you use 40mm bases but I have no problem with old obliterators using 25mm bases.

Using the old Avatar with a 25mm base is however a bit silly.

[don_mondo]

It freaking never fails...

Again, not going to discuss it, anyone who argues for free advantages in a point-based game system is not worth debating. The OP has gotten his answer, and been sensible about it, as has others. The trollish outliers are not worth the time. Don't be one, people. Out.

You're right, it never fails. Some idiot comes along and insists that his opinion is more important than the rules.

[solkan]

Yep, wouldn't want to miss an argument about what the rulebook means by requiring the use of the base the figure came with, even though the original question was concerning using the figures in tournaments.

If the tournament organizer says that you can't use your first edition obliterator as an obliterator because it's too small, or the tournament organizer wants you to rebase the figure to conform to the new model's base, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks the rulebook says.

[Bookwrak]

You're right, it never fails. Some idiot comes along and insists that his opinion is more important than the rules.

It's really a side effect of a n00b player thinking he can earn himself some 'rules cred...' by refusing to read or discuss the rules.

His tune will change once he's played the game long enough that he's actually got models in his collection that are no longer the same size or base as their current incarnations. There's a reason why the rule is worded the way it is - so that people who've been playing a long time, and have things like metal terminators on 28mm bases, or the infantry sized Avatar on a square base, aren't punished for sticking with the game in the long term. Sure, you might have people who hunt for old models specifically to try and abuse the rule, but I'd say that's a much better alternative than telling someone who's been in the game since Rogue Trader that he's going to have to rip those nicely done bases off his terminators if he wants to use them.

And as always, a tournament could say that any models other than bright green space marines are forbidden, so the final answer is up to the tourney organizer, but for the most part, you rarely see tournaments go against unambiguous rules from the BRB.

[striker8]

Yep, wouldn't want to miss an argument about what the rulebook means by requiring the use of the base the figure came with, even though the original question was concerning using the figures in tournaments.

If the tournament organizer says that you can't use your first edition obliterator as an obliterator because it's too small, or the tournament organizer wants you to rebase the figure to conform to the new model's base, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks the rulebook says.

Well now wouldn't that fall into additional rules a tournament organizer implemnts that fall outside the rule book? And point out a tournament that says ignore the rule book and you have to use the base size we say? I've never seen it, just people who think theiropinion overrides everything because they fell it gives someone an advantage even though it may be that person has had the mini since it;s was released.