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Thread: Space Marine specialists

  1. #1

    Space Marine specialists

    I was thinking about rules for upgrading a Space Marine in a Assault or Tactical Squads to Chaplaincy Initiates or Lexicanium (the latter being based on the assumption that the HQ Librarian choise represents a Codicier, or an Epistolary if upgraded). What rules should such upgrade characters have? I was thinking that the profile of a Veteran would be appropriate. Existing fluff says that Lexicanium don't wear psychic hoods, so they would get one power and maybe a force weapon. For a trainee Chaplain I have no idea. Perhaps a reroll of a Sweaping advance roll?
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  2. #2
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine specialists

    If I were doing this I'd do it in one of the following ways:

    - Command Squad gets to upgrade a Veteran to a Lexicanum or a Socius (borrowed word for a Reclusiam Initiate) who provides a rule or power, but not simply a kitted out one wound model
    - Librarians and Chaplains can bring retinues of acolytes, who serve more to augment their commanders' abilities than use their own

    They should be very limited in their scope, much more so than warlocks in guardian squads, for example.
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  3. #3

    Re: Space Marine specialists

    Veteran upgrade makes sense for a Socius (thanks for that word) who must have proven their fervor, but a Lexicanium starts training as soon as the Chapter realise that the marine is a psyker. With some Chapters this can be as soon as they are recruited, though for others -Njal was a Blood Claw and the Space Wolves only found out that he was a psyker when he started throwing lightning at people- it can take longer.
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  4. #4
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine specialists

    I'm not quite up to date on Codex requirements, but if you're working on a DIY chapter, you could certainly justify your own organization.

    Even in a normal chapter, who's to say that the Librarium couldn't attach an acolyte to a Captain's squad for psychic defense or detection or communication?
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  5. #5
    Chapter Master Askari's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine specialists

    I like the idea, and I'd even expand the idea to cover existing Librarians and Chaplains also.

    So, for example with the Liturgies of Battle, a Socius would allow grant the unit re-roll 1s to hit when the charge, a Reclusiarch would keep the rule as it is, and a Master of Sanctity would re-roll 1s to hit even in turn when they didn't charge.

    For Librarians, a Lexicanum would wield a non-armour-ignoring Force Weapon (Force Staff, Focus Rod, whatever) and use one power (and being Ld8, so isn't as capable of utilising it), a Codicier and Epistolary as now (1 and 2 powers, respectively) and a Chief Librarian may get to roll 3D6 and use two lowest for psychic tests. Or something.

    I agree with SoS as them being upgrades to Command Squads, rather than for standard Tacticals. Or perhaps even 3-for-1 choice Elites like Sanguinary Priests.
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  6. #6
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine specialists

    I'd tone it back a little, Askari.

    The Lexicanum could have a rule, rather than a power, such as adding 1 to the Captain's reserves rolls, similar to the Imperial Guard Astropath or the Grey Knight Brother-Captain. I would imagine the Lexicanum are under strict orders to keep their power application to a minimum, for obvious reasons.

    The Socius could grant the unit Stubborn.
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  7. #7
    Chapter Master Askari's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine specialists

    I was going by the precedent of Sanguinary Priests, really, who are quite potent. Frankly I think +1 to reserves is probably more powerful than re-roll 1s when charging as well :P Perhaps you're right on the Lexicanum however, it would be a cheap power caddy - although lacking the largest benefit of Librarians in the psychic hood.
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  8. #8

    Re: Space Marine specialists

    Grant the squad the ability to re-roll one dice per turn:
    Trainee Chaplain [Burning fury]: WS or BS.
    Trainee Librarian [Prescience]: To Wound, either side.
    Trainee Apothecary [First aid]: Any saving throw.

    Keeps it simple and low-powered, doesn't require minor psychic powers or have a big strategic effect, just a little flavorful note.

    Maybe throw in some once-per-game abilities, like the Librarian trainee giving a re-roll to one of the fully fledged psykers or something, but still keep it low-key.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Space Marine specialists

    Lexicanum
    (psyker, standard wargear):

    May choose one of the following powers:
    - The squad he is attached to may re-roll rolls to hit of 1 when shooting
    - Shooting attack: R12" S4 AP4 Assault 2
    - Gains a 6+ invuln in that shooting phase

    Chaplain novitate (thingy)
    (Standard wargear):
    May choose one of the following Rites:
    - Squad may re-roll failed rolls to hit of 1 in close combat
    - Squad has preferred enemy against the type of unit they first kill a model of in CC (e.g. Ork Boyz, Dark Eldar Kabalite etc)
    - Squad may re-roll one failed morale test per game

    My thoughts anyway.

  10. #10
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine specialists

    Lexicanum (upgrade Command Squad Veteran for +20pts, psychic hood for +10 points)
    - Veteran profile and wargear options, with option to take cheap psychic hood
    - Mystic Acolyte: can only use psychic hood against powers that target or affect his unit; can take Force Dome or The Avenger

    Socius (up to two can accompany a Chaplain, 25pts/model)
    - Veteran profiles, chaplain wargear and options, close combat weapon instead of crozius
    - Sacred Duty: For each Socius accompanying the chaplain, extend the range of Honor of the Chapter by 6", affecting all friendly units in range
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  11. #11

    Re: Space Marine specialists

    Chaplains are angry librarians wearing black;
    Librarians are nerdy chaplains wearing blue,

    apparently.

    Specialists are an opportunity to show that the various personnel have different experiences. Making them all upgrade characters at one level and squad buffs at another is just making them into differently colored health potions.

    Apothecaries, Chaplains, command officers, Librarians, and Techmarines are all trained differently and have different paths.

    Psykers are dangerous and start their specialism immediately because they need to be controlled. They also do not need to learn the profession of infantry squad tactics; they provide intelligence.

    Chaplains, on the other hand, are cheerleaders and drill sergeants, they are intimately involved with the life of their companies and can be picked straight from squads after having taken some night classes and sweeping up the chapel in the afternoon. The most description is an old one:

    Chaplains are drawn from the ranks, although only Marines who have earned both Merit and Devout badges are considered for a Chaplaincy. These awards may be displayed as actual badges, or for example as diagonal stripes painted across the right shoulder pad.

    As a first step, a Marine is singled out to aid the Chaplain of his company as a Novice (or Initiate - the terms are almost interchangeable). Duties often involve little more than helping during company rituals, but deep study of the liturgies under a Chaplain's personal tuition is also necessary.

    Should a Chaplaincy fall vacant, the most advanced and promising of the Initiates is sent to the Solitarium. This small cell is situated in a secluded part of the monastery and here the Initiate meditates and fasts for a time. He may be left there for up to a week, while his investiture by the Reclusiarch and the Master of Sanctity is prepared. Then, in front of the whole Chapter, he is formally given his symbols of office and presented to the company who are now under his spiritual guidance. At this point the new Chaplain takes the name of his predecessor.

    When a Chaplain is killed in battle a formal ceremony often has to wait. The senior Initiate immediately takes the helmet and shoulder pads of the Chaplain and dons them. From the moment he puts on the old Chaplain's war-gear he has full authority as one of the Chapter's spiritual leaders. He is formally invested as a new Chaplain only when the battle is won and the dead are absolved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Askari View Post
    a Reclusiarch would keep the rule as it is, and a Master of Sanctity would re-roll 1s to hit even in turn when they didn't charge.

    For Librarians, a Lexicanum would wield a non-armour-ignoring Force Weapon (Force Staff, Focus Rod, whatever) and use one power
    Reclusiarch is a headquarters rank, a cathedral dean who runs the shop for the Master of Sanctity. How many types of force weapon should Imperial lists have? I don't think 40k gameplay needs this.


    I have a whole system; all my parents' cultivation and all the calories or time I have ever consumed have been spent getting it right.

    Basic codiciers cannot really be HQ units anyway. The codicier is demoted to a client unit, like servitors or command squads, and he can't be used as an HQ. All HQ characters allow one of them to be taken as, for instance, an adviser to a captain or the charge of a chaplain. His leadership is nine and he has only one power. This makes him ambiguous between a lexicanium and a codicier.

    Chief Librarians can't be that different from epistolaries, so they can also share a profile, this time with bs5, i5, three attacks, and ld10. They come as HQ choices, cast two powers per turn, and can make available a codicier just like any other HQ.

    The qualifications for being a chaplain are being an especially charismatic battle-brother who isn't as good at commanding armies. A trainee chaplain is any guy in any tactical squad or other squad. They are not special; special rules for novice chaplains are reductive and mean very little. Going up the chain, chapter cults should be the most distinctive difference between chapters, and reclusiarchs or masters of sanctity all need to be special characters like Iron Fathers, Templar chaplains, sigmarite-style warrior priests, Ultramarine drill officers, or Promethean chaplains to have any real use.

    It's fandexy and this thread is quick-fixy, I get it. Squad upgrades for specialists just denigrate the offices, is all I mean.

    can take Force Dome or The Avenger
    right, because it would be weird if a lexicanum could teleport or throw warp storms. You take the opportunity to write modest machine curse or avenger type powers for the basic librarians, and chapter-themed powers for the seniors.

    chaplain wargear and options, close combat weapon instead of crozius
    A rosarius is supplied by the ecclesiarchy as a token of understanding to chapters' reclusiams. If anything, they would have the crozius and not the rosarius. Do they become henchmen accompanying the chaplain, what is going on?

    It's true, this is vastly better than just painting an anonymous tactical squad member a different color.

  12. #12

    Re: Space Marine specialists

    Trainee Apothecary- unit ignores 2 wounds taken when calculating combat results, 6+ FNP save to the unit
    Trainee Chaplain- Squad gains fearless, carries crozaeus
    Trainee Librarian- Psychic hood, 12" range Lightning arc (see Primaris Psyker)
    Trainee Techmarine- Servo arm, can take artificer armor.
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  13. #13
    Chapter Master Askari's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine specialists

    Quote Originally Posted by Orthodox View Post
    Reclusiarch is a headquarters rank, a cathedral dean who runs the shop for the Master of Sanctity.
    And what's your point, they are subservient to the Master of Sanctity and also can go to battle (see Codex: Blood Angels)

    Squad upgrades for specialists just denigrate the offices, is all I mean.
    You take the opportunity to write modest machine curse or avenger type powers for the basic librarians, and chapter-themed powers for the seniors.
    While you'd prefer dozens of similar, but not quite the same, rules for each Chapter?
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  14. #14

    Re: Space Marine specialists

    I wondered where the company chaplains were in your scheme, maybe you had meant they were reclusiarchs. I also wonder at the idea of "keeping" and tweaking existing rules instead of examining the unit from the start and writing good rules. I never imagined you were assuming the Blood Angels' or any other codex's scheme were a core to be expanded.

    If the official lists have any level of quality, then your or my critical faculties should be able to independently invent a nearly identical fandex made from whole cloth. If a fan can't do that well building from the ground up, then he isn't capable of improving it, and if it the official lists are defective, they shouldn't be bothered with at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Askari View Post

    While you'd prefer dozens of similar, but not quite the same, rules for each Chapter?


    Does this refer to something in a post, or in a codex? I don't know what you mean.

  15. #15

    Re: Space Marine specialists

    Thanks for the input everyone. I think that I'm going to assume that the Socius fights with his squad and not with his tutor for the most part, and I think that the Lexicanium's lower Ld means that giving them a normal power is fairly safe.
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