Underwhelmed by Chaos Space Marine Models

[Beppo1234]

I'll have to second the opinion that this is down to paintjob.

For me, the Chaos range as painted by the Eavy metal team is much to brightly coloured and lacks the grimey ancient feel. The Space Wolf kit with its burnished metal effect feels much more ancient when i look at the scheme, while Chaos models just seem like they're fresh from the forgeworld due to the clean way in which they're painted.

Anyone who remembers Andy Chambers' ork armies from the early days of 3rd edition, epic and gorkamorka should remember that the filthy dirty way he painted his armies captured a great deal of character especially when compared with the brightly coloured orks of that time

I agree too. I'm quite liking the models. The paint job is key. You have to go out of your way to make them look a little more aged. I also like spikey bits. The more the better. And I also agree, that the current studio CSMs are not painted with the tone that Chaos should be. They should look dirty, unmaintained and old.

But I also agree, that there should be more warped and mutated versions of CSMs, but in such away that they can be troops, not the elite possessed.

[Askari]

Going by this, what do people think of the represenations of Chaos armour in the Space Marine video game? I thought the variations were all a bit samey, but I liked the general aesthetic.

[Utred]

I'd like to see a new CSM line with more 'possessed' looking marines inspired by the old Rogue Trader models. You could also have a 'Renegade Space Marine' boxed set for those who like the current look.

Totally agree - even said it a few times here previously. Current Chaos marine models look like loyalist Space Marines heading out for a night out with the Flintstones at a Water Buffaloes lodge meeting. `Whoo! I've got hats with a horns on and a few spikes`. It isn't evil, it's just... I dunno lazy. It would be hard to come up with a plastic kit to match what the old Rogue trader models were, but the current plastics we have now seem to be just a bland vanilla option. Thosee current plastics were really the first decent (multi pose) set of plastics we saw for CSM. Instead of producing effectively 5 plastic kits (one for each power as well as an undivided) they produced one generic one.

I personally think they're are two ways to fix it. Option 1) is to add in plastics for Slaanash, Tzneetch and Nurgle. The re-tool the Khorne and Undivided sets - undivided needs more bitz. I'd like to see the armour marks corrupted to a degree a little like the possessed kits. I'd still be using bitz from beastman gor's, the possessed kit, daemons plastic and Tomb King parts. But then I've parts, not just spiky bits. With the accessory parts both GW and forge world produce we've got some really interesting modeling options. Option 2) is that they re-invent them as GW did recently with the Dark Eldar. The DE went from Spiky to something sleek and dangerous. Realistically I think we're just going to see finecast models...

[tuo]

The old Rogue Trader models are some of coolest models out there...I have nearly all of them (I think three or four where no longer available about ten years ago since no working mold was left), but I don't think more possession is the right way.

Take a look at the current "Possesed Marines"...I dunno...I don't like them that much.

What I wrote in another thread also applies here: Chaos needs a much sharper profile OR needs to be broken down into the original Legions and the younger Renegades. The last wave of plastic Chaos Space Marines to me are the most boring CSM models there are, I still prefer most of the 2nd Edition models over these. They tried to do a strange mix between "new-school" Renegades and the old-school "trim + spikes".

The even bigger problem is that the art styles of the other armies evolved dramatically! Space Marines...back in the days, they had a different paint style, that's it. White Terminator with feathers on the weapons here, a Predator with dual-assaultcannons there...abbility to take Leman Russ...the rest was paint scheme and character models. Nowadays, they come with winged jump packs, ride wolves, have iconography all over them. Same goes for nearly every other army, and this is a good thing...but Chaos? Some trim, some spikes (even less than before). Some Cult troops, and not even all.

I would love if GW decides to use the background they built with the HH novels and move the original legions towards older powerarmour variants (like FW does), with Chaos icons etc., and keep most of the current range as "Renegades". Add a few daemon engines and a COOL possession sprue (not the over-the-top possession stuff from the Possesed, but a tentacle here, a horn there, a mushroom instead of feet there).

That would give back so many options to convert/build cool and fluffly Chaos armies, PLUS they would introduce a way to built a HH-area army without the need to go to Forge World.


PS: AND GIVE US BACK CULTISTS, DAMNIT!!!

regards

tuo

[TimLeeson]

Yeah, I really like those old Rogue Trader chaos Marines too - they seemed to have more of a unique feel to them. They looked more baroque and more HR Giger-esque which I found quite appealing - you could tell they were space marines but had gone their own path post-heresy, and that made them more distinctive. I'd probably love chaos marines if they looked like updated versions of those old RT ones.

My personal favourites were the Tzeentch chaos marines that had mushroom type bodies - so weird and had a slight lovecraftian feel to them, always thought they'd make a cool elite unit for Thousand Sons if they brought them back.

[Maskedman5oh4]

I just don't get why worshipping Chaos means you have to wear a topknot, but, maybe, that is just me...

[RunepriestRidcully]

I agree the generic Chaos marines are well, bland apart from the champion sprue and the old style plasma gun on it, I would love it if they did those seperately. I quite like the current Thousand son models, and am thinking of getting one more box and a rhino.

[Tay051173096]

The basic kit makes brilliant coversions (Skyrars dark wolves, fire dragons and ect.) by them selves they lack any sparkle...

[Cthell]

For me the problem is the elimination of the Bitz service; when it was possible to cherry-pick interesting components from across both 40k and fantasy, a big part of the fun of CSM was coming up with imaginative conversions. All the plastic CSM box needed to do was provide a base for conversions, so the relative blandness was actually a bonus (blank canvas and that kind of thing). Since GW don't seem likely to bring back the Bitz service, CSM need redesigned sprues with a boatload of interesting options.

[Ivellis]

As is, if I wanted to make a Chaos army I would probably combine bitz from the chaos, blood angels, space wolves AND dark angels kits. It would cost a lot, but I feel the disorganization that would come of this fits perfectly. The chaos bitz on their own are rather disappointing, here's hoping for a new CSM troops box.

[Commotionpotion]

For me, the 1996 vintage plastic/metal hybrids designed by Jes Goodwin always win out over the newer versions. Sure, they were a pain to put together, and were let down by the arms and weapon sprues of the time, but the actual bodies have a timelessly threatening feel. The same goes for the Terminators - the modern ones are pale, excessively chunky shadows.

Incidentally, this is why I still like the Abaddon figure - he fits right in with my Termies .

[Spell_of_Destruction]

The old Rogue Trader models are some of coolest models out there...I have nearly all of them (I think three or four where no longer available about ten years ago since no working mold was left), but I don't think more possession is the right way.

Take a look at the current "Possesed Marines"...I dunno...I don't like them that much.

What I wrote in another thread also applies here: Chaos needs a much sharper profile OR needs to be broken down into the original Legions and the younger Renegades. The last wave of plastic Chaos Space Marines to me are the most boring CSM models there are, I still prefer most of the 2nd Edition models over these. They tried to do a strange mix between "new-school" Renegades and the old-school "trim + spikes".

Yeah, I don't really like the direction they have taken the possessed marines and I wouldn't want that sort of look for regular CSMs.

What appeals to me about some of the Rogue Trader models is the way that their armour has warped in such a way that it is subtly different from loyalist power armour, rather than loyalist power armour + spikes and horns.

I have always thought that each individual CSM should have a distinct look (difficult to achieve with a plastic set, I know), as though each were a unique work of his patron God.

[TheWarmaster]

I am not saying this to defend the current CSM kit as it does look bland, but those RT models just look ugly to me.
They have their heads protruding from their chests even worse than the terminators, their guns look tiny (which was the standard of the time I suppose but still) and their proportions are even more wrong than the current plastics'.
And those power plants on their backs. Just...ew. They are overall so ugly to look at.
I agree they have more character than the current plastics but I'd rather spend a lot of money converting the current models to look interesting rather than use those.

[Chem-Dog]

You might be right in that mk.v 'Heresy' armour has been stated as being loyalist-only.

Mk V is a designation applied by the Imperium (Mechanicum) to any and all stop-gap solutions to keep amour operable during the heresy period, there is no one set schematic for Mk V, it's just spares and bodge-jobs to keep marines in the fight. It's only "Imperium Only" by virtue of the fact that the CSM's probably have no need (or desire, perhaps) to acknowledge or use the designation.
This is why I think of it as the CSM Mark of armour though, it represents a hybrid of looted and repaired parts. Mk V lacks finesse for the sake of functionality, it's unrefined, brutal.

I have always thought that each individual CSM should have a distinct look (difficult to achieve with a plastic set, I know), as though each were a unique work of his patron God.

Way back when, this was at least considered. Check out this at about 0:50 in, specifically the four Legion specific designs. Though too small to see here (and I couldn't find a pic online that's any help) the text does cover, to some degree, the reasons for the shapes and general silhouette of the four different designs.
I remember it mentioning that the Emperor's Children had recently been supplied with Mk IV armour and thus this affected how they looked.
I'd be a happy lamb if they swung back to this kind of thinking.

[Spell_of_Destruction]

I am not saying this to defend the current CSM kit as it does look bland, but those RT models just look ugly to me.
They have their heads protruding from their chests even worse than the terminators, their guns look tiny (which was the standard of the time I suppose but still) and their proportions are even more wrong than the current plastic's.
And those power plants on their backs. Just...ew. They are overall so ugly to look at.
I agree they have more character than the current plastics but I'd rather spend a lot of money converting the current models to look interesting rather than use those.

They're ancient models. You need to use your imagination a bit to envisage how models with a similar aesthetic concept might look with today's sculpting standards.

Did a bit more digging on that website and found the models I actually wanted to post originally. This is the line I had in mind.

[totgeboren]

I remember reading somewhere, during 2:ed, that they moved away from the RT-era Renegades style because it didn't translate very well to the tabletop. The design ideas look cool on a page in a magazine, but they look really messy on the tabletop.
Though with their current day technique and skill, I think CSM with the RT-era design could look really cool. I personally don't want them as warped as that, but each to their own.

[Excessus]

The 2nd ed chaos models gave the army a really "archaic" feel to them, these were the ancient enemies of the imperium, fighting an eternal war. Loose cables everywhere and old outdated equipment(with special rules for it). Together with the pictures of John Blanche and Mark Gibbons it gave them a grimy old antiqued look...but at least the current plastic set from 2002 is heaps better than the first 5-man plastic set!

[RunepriestRidcully]

They should Blanhce approve every design, and do all the artwork, that we may not have to suffer the Stormchicken or the StormSpud. The latter has really made me worry about the quality of any future release.