Independent Character leaving unit in difficult terrain

[Sami]

Generally speaking (i.e. GAP), 2D6 movement would be treated as lower potential maximum than 3D6 movement. So you won't roll two separate movement values (2D6 and 3D6) and pick the lowest, you just use the 2D6. I don't think I know of a single person who actually rolls the two separate values and then takes the lowest.

[jubilex]

Generally speaking (i.e. GAP), 2D6 movement would be treated as lower potential maximum than 3D6 movement.

Yes, it is.
But, it's not what you are asked to do, is it?

The rules demand you find out which model is capable of moving the furthest.

I don't think I know of a single person who actually rolls the two separate values and then takes the lowest.

Maybe not but its not what the rules say.

What you then go on to do, is up to you.

[TheGreatDalmuti]

You are confusing two rules here. First we agree for the 2D6 not being an actual speed comperable with 3D6.
The thing is that this 3D6 comes from a universal special rule that the ICs have. If it was just inbuilt in the ICs we could have an arguement. But since it is a universal special rule, we treat it as all others USRs, so no model in the unit can use it if all models don't have it. So the rule "the slowest of the bunch slows the unit" never comes in to effect. When you try to see who the slowest is you see just the result of the 2D6.

[niknokitueu]

The reason that you do not roll 2D6 and also roll 3D6 in order to work out the slowest model is that you can apply such logic to the entire squad.

...So a squad of 10 marines with an attached IC would need to roll 10 sets of 2D6 and a set of 3D6, choosing the worst result.
Or, even worse, a squad on its own would need to roll 2D6 individually. Wait, the rules do not say to do this.

What the rules do say is that the squad moves at the pace of the slowest model. 2D6 is a slower pace than 3D6 (go on, run the maths. Average of 'highest of 2D6' is less than average of 'highest of 3D6'), so the squad moves 'highest of 2D6'.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[TheGreatDalmuti]

The rules say the unit rolls 2D6. That's it. So the whole unit will have no slower models. So that rule will never come in to effect.

The point is that when you will try to roll the 3D6 you can't. The IC has lost MtC when he joined the unit.

If we played the game with avereges you would be correct for you second point. But we don't, we do indeed roll the dice. Else space marines allways pass their armor saves. Do the math.Average of D6 is more than 3.

[jubilex]

The thing is that this 3D6 comes from a universal special rule that the ICs have.

Apologies, I think I havent been clear.

I am considering this from a more general approach, ie, hybrid units with potentially different movement speeds imposed by perhaps a single model, do not defer to the slowest movement type (that is the one determined by rolling/rolling fewer dice).
They would have to check to see which model is the slowest.

P11, different movement distances in a unit = All of the models in a unit move at the speed of the slowest model.

Now we know that the slowest model is not the one that actually moves the least, but is the one that is theoretically capable of moving the least. Therefore, we need to know which one it is.
The unit is held up by the slowest model.

So, when we get a hybrid unit, we need to determine the slowest model.
The ic has move through cover, so he gets an extra dice. However this is a usr, which will be lost, so he wont get that dice.
This is why I used jump pack + falling back as my example.

A unit of infantry with (say) a jump pack ic, does not suddenly become an infantry unit. It may not even move like infantry in its entirety.
The ic is perfectly able to move like jump infantry, but it can't move any further than the slowest model in its unit.
The unit cannot embark on a transport.
The ic must check its fallback 3d6, the rest of the unit 2d6, but neither section of the unit can fallback further than the slowest one.

The infantry roll could be 12, the jp roll 3.
The unit is not infantry or jump pack, we need to know the slowest model.

[TheGreatDalmuti]

Ok. So for this exact rules question we all agree that the unit moves 2D6.
The rest belogs in another thread.

[jubilex]

No, the rest belongs here, due to what you were claiming.
Other than that, ok.

[Sami]

I think the issue comes up more when you have an IC who is Jump Infantry in a unit who is Infantry, and both are falling back. You usually move 2D6" for infantry, and 3D6" for JI. However, you could end up rolling 2x 6s for the Infantry (so 12" move) and 3x 1s for the Jump Infantry (so 3"), meaning that 3" would be the slowest, even though the marines have a slower maximum speed.

As for ICs using 3D6 and pick the highest for moving through terrain to leave a unit, the issue is null and void as the IC doesn't have that special rule while it is in a unit that doesn't have the special rule.

[PRoeske]

I'd say the whole case of IC's and units is pretty simple.

IC's do have Move Through Cover
Unit doesn't jave Move Through Cover

The universal special rules section in the rulebook (think page 76) states there are some rules that are lost when a model without this rule becomes part of the unit (or vice versa). Think: Fearless, Move Through Cover, Scouts, Infiltrate.

The section about Independent Characters and movement states: "An independent character can leave a unit by moving out of coherency distance with it."

According to these rules, an independent character can never make use of his Move Through Cover rule as long as he is part of a unit.